Very good point. I was planning to used oil analysis the Redline in my Aerostar at 7000 miles (16 months), but maybe that is not such a good idea, though it may be interesting to see how much cleaning it has done.
Whats so good about redline?
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Patman
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I would do the used oil analysis anyhow. After running that oil for 16 months it would be a shame not to have any data whatsoever on how it did.
But then again you know me, I am addicted to oil analysis, I cannot do an oil change without doing one!
Well my engine only has 10,500 miles. The factory fill was toyota dino then i switched to Mobil 1 Extended Performance at ~4,700miles and now have redline at ~10,200miles. So, I am assuming that red line wont be doing much cleaning since my engine is pretty new. I guess we'll find out when i do a used oil analysis in about 8 months.
Whats So Good About Redline? You have to admit thats a cool name for a performance motor oil!
I think there alot of good small oil companies in the market. Redline must be one of them, Royal purple, klotz, Torco, all of them can not compete with the major brands so they produce supirior product just to make the difference.That is my opinion, maybe wrong but thats how I figure it. I started using TORCO again and do see a difference in milage and a smoother running engine.
Maybe I will try some Redline sometime, from the majors I was running M1 for years in my engines, no complaint, its good stuff as well, but Torco runs smoother.
Maybe I will try some Redline sometime, from the majors I was running M1 for years in my engines, no complaint, its good stuff as well, but Torco runs smoother.
I was curious, how much does Torco oil cost? I'm presently running VP's oil and the vehicle it's in runs alot smoother also then it did with Mobil 1.
I've run Redline for many years, and it is an excellent oil.
I'd have to say the best oil I know of for gasoline passenger cars, especially when driven hard.
I use Redline in our 325es BMW, and the engine has well over 500K miles, and Redline certainly hasn't caused any harm.
What I notice with Redline is the engines run smooth and quiet, oil temps are lower during hard driving, oil consumption is nearly zero in any of our cars, and the few used oil analysis I've run at 10K OCI's have been excellent.
I'm running GC 0w30 in two of our Subaru's and in one of our BMW's and while the engines also run smooth and quiet....the oil consumption is noticeably higher.
I see nothing wrong with Pennzoil Platinum, or Rotella 5W-40 for the money.
I'd have to say the best oil I know of for gasoline passenger cars, especially when driven hard.
I use Redline in our 325es BMW, and the engine has well over 500K miles, and Redline certainly hasn't caused any harm.
What I notice with Redline is the engines run smooth and quiet, oil temps are lower during hard driving, oil consumption is nearly zero in any of our cars, and the few used oil analysis I've run at 10K OCI's have been excellent.
I'm running GC 0w30 in two of our Subaru's and in one of our BMW's and while the engines also run smooth and quiet....the oil consumption is noticeably higher.
I see nothing wrong with Pennzoil Platinum, or Rotella 5W-40 for the money.
I wish there was an edit function.
As I was saying... I have a big problem with Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec because of the group III scam.
So GC and Redline are two standout synthetic oils that are truly synthetic oils, and both seem better suited to protect engines during spirited driving, or of the engines are modified for increased output.
The slight oil consumption with GC and the limit of one viscosity are the two negatives with GC.
Redline's performance is excellent, the oil consumption is the lowest I've ever seen, and there is a wider selection of viscosities.
I was able to buy a lot of GC at $5.00/ qt but now the cost is over $6 /qt with tax. Mobil 1 is now $6 to $7 / qt with tax in my area......so Redline is no longer that expensive compared to the competition.
So Pennzoil Platinum with 'Buy One Get One Free', Shell Rotella 5W-40, Redline, certain Amsoil grades, and the bargain oils like Motorcraft/ TropArctic/ Halvoline are now some of the oils I feel good about using.
I nver feel cheated, or wonder if I am being deceived, or scammed when I buy Redline. I wish I could say the same about some of the other expensive name brand synthetics.
As I was saying... I have a big problem with Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec because of the group III scam.
So GC and Redline are two standout synthetic oils that are truly synthetic oils, and both seem better suited to protect engines during spirited driving, or of the engines are modified for increased output.
The slight oil consumption with GC and the limit of one viscosity are the two negatives with GC.
Redline's performance is excellent, the oil consumption is the lowest I've ever seen, and there is a wider selection of viscosities.
I was able to buy a lot of GC at $5.00/ qt but now the cost is over $6 /qt with tax. Mobil 1 is now $6 to $7 / qt with tax in my area......so Redline is no longer that expensive compared to the competition.
So Pennzoil Platinum with 'Buy One Get One Free', Shell Rotella 5W-40, Redline, certain Amsoil grades, and the bargain oils like Motorcraft/ TropArctic/ Halvoline are now some of the oils I feel good about using.
I nver feel cheated, or wonder if I am being deceived, or scammed when I buy Redline. I wish I could say the same about some of the other expensive name brand synthetics.
FWIW, if you go by cleaning effects, I found that arx was MUCH more aggressive at cleaning than redline judging by filter contents.
Yet, in the only used oil analysis I've ever done, which was on an arx rinse cycle, the only wear metal I had that was CLOSE to abnormal was 19 ppm lead... For redline to be such an aggressive cleaner, it sure didn't translate into dirty filters...
Yet, in the only used oil analysis I've ever done, which was on an arx rinse cycle, the only wear metal I had that was CLOSE to abnormal was 19 ppm lead... For redline to be such an aggressive cleaner, it sure didn't translate into dirty filters...
A lot of those particles in the 19ppm reading are ones that don't get picked up by the filter. We have taken samples from a running engine and read lower numbers in fe than a sample taken right after shut down on the same day, with synthetic oil, taken through the dipstick opening, and still a different, higher reading, from a clean catch when draining the oil, still on the same day. It appears to me that most of the particles that flow around thourgh the oil system are small enough to never get touched by the filter. It also appears that the reading of particles is effected by how, when and where you take a sample. We have taken 6 samples using varous methods on the same day and had different readings. Some of this is lab variances, some is contamination during the process, and some is just the nature of the engine. This stuff of reading an oil sample is a bit more complicated that it appears. The effects can be reduced by periodic samples over a period of time with lots of similar samples to use as a reference.
I have two performance cars and I use redline mainaly cos I was attrached to its HTHS ratings and apparent good performance under serious driving.
My car only sees a few runs on the track a year...but I can say the oil temp increases but not as much as similar cars running M1 type products...that was enough justification for me.
I have done one UOA on one car, I will be doing another of the bigger beast soon. I plan to do samples over 3000km intervals for my own info to see how the results change. Not for any other reason.
My car only sees a few runs on the track a year...but I can say the oil temp increases but not as much as similar cars running M1 type products...that was enough justification for me.
I have done one UOA on one car, I will be doing another of the bigger beast soon. I plan to do samples over 3000km intervals for my own info to see how the results change. Not for any other reason.
I reckon sometimes we are *assuming* through theory that Redline is a good oil for the track. But how do we know? Have we done a track day with back to back results with an OTC synthetic such as M1? I do remember one UOA on SK2ki.com of Redline's Shockproof oil performing terribly in an S2000 diff - much worse than M1 yet Shockproof in theory is meant to be 'the goods'.
I've observed that whenever oil brands vs. use are talked about, there are usually some wide-ranging orientations, but many of the orientations in here are usually based on "science" rather than other things--which is good. Yet I still see a little brand loyalty sneaking in every so often, which is to be expected.
RedLine and other similar companies tend to have a following of particular sections of the automotive hobby. Kind of like most old-line drag racers I've been around leaning toward Valvoline oil and old-line cowboy-types leaning toward Wrangler jeans--both due to involvement and sponsorship of their respective target markets. Nothing wrong in that respect, at all. This is one way to build brand loyalty, which can work well. I suspect that if you look at what oil is used in the various sub-sets of the total automotive hobby, you'll probably find many preferences for each respective sub-set which are unique or different from the other segments. This could be where the "specific use" orientation might come in.
With the later issues of cam/lifter wear, becoming more aware of these oils might be more advantageous for those in that area of the car hobby. IF an oil product is not chasing OEM approvals, they can still build oils like they used to build oils 30 years ago. . . by what the company's R&D department might dictate rather than OEM emissions compliance. NOTE: if you have a modern computer-controlled vehicle with a roller cam, you'd probably be better off using an OEM-approved oil to keep the emissions hardward peforming as designed for its "design life". But if you've got a flat-tappet engine, then you have more latitude in that area and you might not be completely focused on fuel economy issues either.
In the area of vintage vehicles, I suspect that most any oil on the market will most probably work well without any specific factory OEM approvals (at least in the USA-produced engines), I suspect. The "user network" will generally determine what works and what does not, typically. Only thing is that with vintage vehicles, they will not accumulate miles very quickly and any results can be a long time in compilation.
I've noticed that the new Rotella T is now SM-rated. Others will probably follow as existing stocks are depleted. This can tend to change things a little if somebody finds an older post on the Comp Cams recommendations without looking any further for more updated information.
Therefore, as most of the existing SL oils might soon become SM (especially in OEM-stated viscosities), patching into the enthusiast network for alternatives that are still SL oils can be beneficial.
The other thing I've noticed on name brand oils is that once you get away from the OEM-recommended viscosities, you can still find SL oils in things like 10W-40 and such (not the "energy conserving" viscosities). How long that might last would remain to be seen.
Perhaps, what is one the back of the oil bottle can be important to read, but also what is NOT on the back of the oil bottle (especially in the more niche-market oils) can be equally revealing?
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
RedLine and other similar companies tend to have a following of particular sections of the automotive hobby. Kind of like most old-line drag racers I've been around leaning toward Valvoline oil and old-line cowboy-types leaning toward Wrangler jeans--both due to involvement and sponsorship of their respective target markets. Nothing wrong in that respect, at all. This is one way to build brand loyalty, which can work well. I suspect that if you look at what oil is used in the various sub-sets of the total automotive hobby, you'll probably find many preferences for each respective sub-set which are unique or different from the other segments. This could be where the "specific use" orientation might come in.
With the later issues of cam/lifter wear, becoming more aware of these oils might be more advantageous for those in that area of the car hobby. IF an oil product is not chasing OEM approvals, they can still build oils like they used to build oils 30 years ago. . . by what the company's R&D department might dictate rather than OEM emissions compliance. NOTE: if you have a modern computer-controlled vehicle with a roller cam, you'd probably be better off using an OEM-approved oil to keep the emissions hardward peforming as designed for its "design life". But if you've got a flat-tappet engine, then you have more latitude in that area and you might not be completely focused on fuel economy issues either.
In the area of vintage vehicles, I suspect that most any oil on the market will most probably work well without any specific factory OEM approvals (at least in the USA-produced engines), I suspect. The "user network" will generally determine what works and what does not, typically. Only thing is that with vintage vehicles, they will not accumulate miles very quickly and any results can be a long time in compilation.
I've noticed that the new Rotella T is now SM-rated. Others will probably follow as existing stocks are depleted. This can tend to change things a little if somebody finds an older post on the Comp Cams recommendations without looking any further for more updated information.
Therefore, as most of the existing SL oils might soon become SM (especially in OEM-stated viscosities), patching into the enthusiast network for alternatives that are still SL oils can be beneficial.
The other thing I've noticed on name brand oils is that once you get away from the OEM-recommended viscosities, you can still find SL oils in things like 10W-40 and such (not the "energy conserving" viscosities). How long that might last would remain to be seen.
Perhaps, what is one the back of the oil bottle can be important to read, but also what is NOT on the back of the oil bottle (especially in the more niche-market oils) can be equally revealing?
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
I used Red Line for over 200,000 miles in my '97 Escort wagon, from about 100,000 miles until the engine received fatal damage from a failed rebuilt head at 313,000 miles. I changed it every 6,000 miles with a filter change between oil changes, as to this point I distrusted synthetic oils based on my father's bad experience with a competitor years before (*cough* Mobil 1 *cough* seal failures, plural, in two vehicles + Tecumseh engine *cough*) and I wanted to be conservative.
In short, I was very pleased with Red Line and would use it again. Unfortunately, my stash was all used, money is tight right now, and after I replace my Escort, I'll be looking at something cheaper—possibly Pennzoil Platinum or some such.
When I first changed to Red Line, the oil filter clogged within 1,500 miles because the oil cleaned the engine out so well. I played it safe and changed the filter again after another 1,500 miles. Based on this alone, I'd say to wait on oil analysis until at least the second oil change. Keep an eye when you start your vehicle cold and if the oil lamp takes a little longer than usual to go out and the engine sounds stressed, the oil filter is clogged with dreck and needs replacement. After the initial cleaning this won't continue to be an issue.
In short, I was very pleased with Red Line and would use it again. Unfortunately, my stash was all used, money is tight right now, and after I replace my Escort, I'll be looking at something cheaper—possibly Pennzoil Platinum or some such.
When I first changed to Red Line, the oil filter clogged within 1,500 miles because the oil cleaned the engine out so well. I played it safe and changed the filter again after another 1,500 miles. Based on this alone, I'd say to wait on oil analysis until at least the second oil change. Keep an eye when you start your vehicle cold and if the oil lamp takes a little longer than usual to go out and the engine sounds stressed, the oil filter is clogged with dreck and needs replacement. After the initial cleaning this won't continue to be an issue.
Reputation from racing circles etc. I'm not convinced at all that RL cleans any more than other synthetics. I think it's an over used excuse in some cases. Most of these cars RL is put into are already clean and dont have deposits.
RL's reputation is mainly from their racing oils. Very few if any of those sponsored teams run the street oils. Therefore, the street oils maybe very over rated or not ideal for most of us.
Leo's point of something being considered good based on theory is a good one. It's a trap that's easy to fall into. For example, the theory often goes like this: "It uses "some amount of POE basestocks? Wow, it must be great. Lots of moly? Awesome!" Would you pick a wife based on her generously sized chest? No.
I have a lot of bad to say about Redline from my experience but on the other hand believe the experiences of others as well.
I have a lot of bad to say about Redline from my experience but on the other hand believe the experiences of others as well.
completely agree. I used to think that way. I though RL was special because it used an "ester" base oil. Big deal. Not all esters are good and not all ester based oil are good. Same with certain additives. It's the complete formulation that matters.
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