Redline Oil Compromises Mileage & HP??

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Ron,

You are basically correct, as far as you go...I would add that how well the oil pumps during the warmup phase also contributes to fuel efficiency, as does friction reduction in the valvetrain.

HT/HS viscosity is inversely proportional to fuel efficiency for similar basestocks.

TS
 
It has been stated before that some oils could be designed to shear to improve fuel efficiency. Take Mobil 1 0w-40 for example. Mobil knows it shears to a 30wt, and they also know with that it will improve gas mileage. But at what cost in terms of engine protection?

In a racing application, or high performance application you wouldn't want an oil to shear to the point that you loose engine protection and that is why RL builds their oils so shear stable.
 
The testing done would suggest wear is not a problem. This graph shows wear materials for 60,000 Km, with OCI's of 20,000. Seems like a fairly extreme test. Also shows why 8,000 OCI's are more reasonable.

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quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:

quote:
Originally posted by Rand:
That graph is a 2.9 HTHS... where is the graph for 2.6?
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Europeans would wet their pants if forced to test 2.6 HTHS oil.
grin.gif

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Agree the Europeans like their oil thick. This article appears to have been written in 2000, so perhaps they had trouble getting some 2.6 oil? But on the other hand they provided this graph which shows results down to 2.6. Suspect different tests at different times.

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I see that Redline has not certified their oil to ILSAC GF-4 and API SM standards. Those standards require a minimum fuel efficiency delta over a standard reference oil (2.3% for 5w20). Perhaps Redline cannot meet those new standards due to their high HTHS viscosity??? I think the same situation exists for Torco in not meeting GF-4.
 
quote:
Redline Oil Compromises Mileage & HP??
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Have you read their marketing info? They talk about using 1 grade lower than normal. That means you would use their 5W20 in place of a 5W or 10W30 recommendation. In that situation, you'd have similar HTHS numbers but the hp loss through the oil pump of the lighter kinematic viscosity 5W20. In this way, you'd get at least equal hp, better mpg, and equal or better durability. The fact that your application calls for a 5W20 puts you in the difficult position of not having a grade lower available to you in the street oils.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tempest:

quote:
However, 40 deg. C is pretty dam hot at least where I live.
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It's pretty normal around here. I'm sticking with a top shelf 5W30.
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If you have a water cooled engine in good working condition the temperature outside once the engine warms up, shouldn't make any difference. It's only the driver that may feel a difference on a hot day - especially if you don't have A/C.

Actually my point in the post was that the 5w or 0w refers to the viscosity at 40 deg. C. Engines typically start at a temperature cooler than that and operate through this range during warm up. For that reason even in hot climates the Xw viscosity is still important. Even with a 0w oil it is much higher than ideal.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ron AKA:
Actually my point in the post was that the 5w or 0w refers to the viscosity at 40 deg. C. ...
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5w or 0w has nothing to do with the 40C viscosity. You really need to read some more on this site and stop spreading misinformation.
 
quote:
Originally posted by flatlandtacoma:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron AKA:
Actually my point in the post was that the 5w or 0w refers to the viscosity at 40 deg. C. ...
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5w or 0w has nothing to do with the 40C viscosity. You really need to read some more on this site and stop spreading misinformation.
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Why then does a Pennzoil HD straight 40 oil have a 40C viscosity of 165, while a Mobil 1 0w40 have a 40C viscosity of 80?
 
I saw no improvement in fuel economy using Redline on two occasions, despite what Dave at Redline said, even when I tried 5w20. The Havoline 5w20, with its very low viscosity and low HTHS is seemig to make the engine feel more powerful, but I haven't done any of the trips for which I have carefully measured fuel economy, so I don't have numbers to back up my feelings.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ron AKA:
I think we give the automakers more credit than they deserve for suggesting their engines are designed for a specific grade of oil.
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On the contrary, I think you missed the forest from the trees. Reference the study you first listed. Even the Europeans use 53% of their total fuel consumption in journeys less than 6.2 miles in length since 75% of their journeys are less than 6.2 miles in length.

Therefore, although fuel economy improvement might be minor once the engine (in particular the oil) is up to operating temperature, the first 5-10 miles is where you'll see a major improvement in fuel economy with GF-4 oils. And even if the average drivers trip length was 30 miles, in cooler weather, on average, one third of of that trip benefits significantly from the GF-4 oils.

Also, consider the length of EPA test loop.
 
quote:
Originally posted by flatlandtacoma:
Why is the sky blue? Read up!
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I seem to have rubbed you the wrong way. A Redline or Torco fan? In any case I agree that 40C viscosity is not directly related to the Xw rating. However, the point is that lower temperature viscosity is important as fuel mileage is affected during warm up. Also a high % of engine wear occurs during start-up so lower temperature viscosity is important and is best achieved with a high viscosity index oil. That is why one would use a 0w40 over a straight 40.

We are off track here as the post was really only intended to probe the issue of Redline oil not being energy efficient and not producing the most HP compared to up to date GL-4 SM oils.
 
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