Redline D4 ATF states GL-4 Protection. Amsoil?

[DaddyBlogger]

Trying to decide between Redline D4 ATF and Amsoil Uni ATF and having a hard time determining which is best. Redline D4 ATF - on thier website it states that it offers GL-4 level protection. I can't locate the GL rating for the Amsoil Uni ATF anywhere does anyone know what it is?

I have been pleased with the Amsoil Uni ATF and the only reason I am considering a POSSIBLE change is that some of the Honda forums swear by the Redline D4 more so than the Amsoil Uni ATF.

Thank you for any help.

 

[simple_gifts]

Is this a manual or auto? Confused.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Is this a manual or auto? Confused.


He must be talking about an auto transmission. I use the Amsoil in both of our Toyotas and really like it.

 

[D-Roc]

I highly doubt you would see any measurable wear difference between the two...use whichever brand suits your fancy. I like Redline's drivetrain lubricants, but my preference goes to the Amsoil.

 

[Johnny]

I have two Honda Elements, one has Red Line D4 ATF and the other has Amsoil ATF and I cannot tell a difference in either.

 

[MolaKule]

I think Redline's products are very good, but I have a problem with a company that claims a GL4 gear lube rating when they don't publish their ASTM results to support it.

 

[Pablo]

Honestly, if Amsoil claimed a gear oil rating for their ATF people would have a big laugh. It's marketing stuff.

I can't say this with scientific certainty but most well made synthetic ATF's with Zn/P in the 200-300+ range would pass GL-4.

 

[DaddyBlogger]

I am talking about an automatic transmission.

Pablo...I am assuming Amsoil Uni ATF has Zn/P in the range you state?

I did ask Amsoil technical for a response on any type of rating such as the GL-4 which Redline states for its D4 ATF. No response yet but I always get one from Amsoil.

 

[Pablo]

Amsoil has a showing of around 400 ppm P, most coming from P-ester complexes.

 

[DaddyBlogger]

I received an official technical support response from Amsoil regarding my question above. Interesting what they state about the EP additive which is in Redline D4 ATF.

"Automatic Transmission Fluid does not benefit from the EP additive which qualifies it to meet GL-4 specifications. In fact it may be harmful. AMSOIL Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is recommended to replace Honda ATF-Z1 fluid.

Honda ATF-Z1 Automatic Transmission Fluid, Part no.
08200-9001 or equivalent

Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance."

I thought that was a strong statement about the differences between the two. It must not be that big of an issue having the EP additive though because so many swear by the Redline D4 ATF. Based on Amsoil's response I think I will stick with the Amsoil Uni ATF.

 

[Jasper8146]

I am not an engineer, but nevertheless question Amsoil's response that an EP additive is never beneficial in any auto transmission fluid in any application. My main reason for switching from Amsoil to Redline D4 in a 2003 Acura MDX is the GL4 rating on the Redline fluid. After putting in the Amsoil (which I have no doubt is substantially superior to Z1), almost by accident came across a number of posts on a variety of sites all to the effect that the design of Honda auto transmissions is quite a bit different than most and gear wear apparently is more of an issue with them than it is in virtually any other auto transmission. Also, my experience has been that our MDX actually does seem to shift better and generally drives better since going to the Redline D4.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: DaddyBlogger
I received an official technical support response from Amsoil regarding my question above. Interesting what they state about the EP additive which is in Redline D4 ATF.

"Automatic Transmission Fluid does not benefit from the EP additive which qualifies it to meet GL-4 specifications. In fact it may be harmful. AMSOIL Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is recommended to replace Honda ATF-Z1 fluid.

Honda ATF-Z1 Automatic Transmission Fluid, Part no.
08200-9001 or equivalent

Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance."

I thought that was a strong statement about the differences between the two. It must not be that big of an issue having the EP additive though because so many swear by the Redline D4 ATF. Based on Amsoil's response I think I will stick with the Amsoil Uni ATF.



You should email Redline and ask them the same question.

 

[gogozy]

i have a question related to the ATF and GL-4 rating, i hope people don't mind me to wake up this old tread..

with all those new Honda fluid about ATF-DW1 and DPSF, and i am doing some research on what fluid to use on the rear differentials, i came across a post that clams Honda ATF-Z1 is actually GL-4 rated. and their DPSF is GL-5 rated. i personally think this make much sense as Honda transmission runs like manual, and this is also the reason Honda spec their Z1 in the differentials in their SH-AWD system.

so my question is, any knowledge person can shed some light on if Honda ATF-Z1 is, or possibly, GL-4 rated ?
thanks

 

[unDummy]

I'd doubt that Z1 is GL4. It uses zinc instead of phosphorous as the seen additive. The dosage just doesn't look high enough. The Z1 price is too low and performance is too pathetic to think that there is anything exotic about it.

If you want to see what DPSF is, get a VOA.

Spec'ing ATF in a differential hints that its not stressed or loaded. My Toyota has Dexron ATF in the differential doesn't mean Dexron is GL-anything.

I think Redline D4 is relying on the base stock to provide a level of lubricity and film strength.
Which is better alone as a lubricant with no additives, POE or PAO? So, I won't agree with Amsoil's "EP" comment.
Boron was all but barely seen in ATF a decade ago. Now, even a lowly ATF has 50ppm with higher end ATFs showing 200ppm or more.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
I'd doubt that Z1 is GL4. It uses zinc instead of phosphorous as the seen additive. The dosage just doesn't look high enough. The Z1 price is too low and performance is too pathetic to think that there is anything exotic about it.

If you want to see what DPSF is, get a VOA.

Spec'ing ATF in a differential hints that its not stressed or loaded. My Toyota has Dexron ATF in the differential doesn't mean Dexron is GL-anything.

I think Redline D4 is relying on the base stock to provide a level of lubricity and film strength.
Which is better alone as a lubricant with no additives, POE or PAO? So, I won't agree with Amsoil's "EP" comment.
Boron was all but barely seen in ATF a decade ago. Now, even a lowly ATF has 50ppm with higher end ATFs showing 200ppm or more.


thanks. I contact Amsoil and seems like Amsoil is not GL-4 rated. they also don't think Z1 is GL-4 rated too. its interesting now because although there was no change on the rear differential unit on SH-AWD on RL, RDX, MDX, and Z1 was being spec since 2006. but now Z1 no longer being spec for it beginning mid year 2010, not even the new ATF-DW1. the dual pump fluid is called, and that's where i see a post on the element forum where GL5 was cited.
again, i appreciated for the response and i may switch to D4 for my rear differentials in future.

 

[unDummy]

For a diff, or splash lubed gearbox, there needs to be a certain amount of clingy-ness and climb-ability of the fluid. Anyone want to guess what happens when you use improve the flow and drop the viscosity of the fluid? It drains back too quickly, or doesn't climb well enough, or.....

Rumor is Z1 will be phased out eventually, and be replaced completely by DW1. But, DW1 might just be too thin for gearboxes and the like. So, they already have VTM and DPF in the inventory and chose one of those.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: gogozy
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I'd doubt that Z1 is GL4. It uses zinc instead of phosphorous as the seen additive. The dosage just doesn't look high enough. The Z1 price is too low and performance is too pathetic to think that there is anything exotic about it.

If you want to see what DPSF is, get a VOA.

Spec'ing ATF in a differential hints that its not stressed or loaded. My Toyota has Dexron ATF in the differential doesn't mean Dexron is GL-anything.

I think Redline D4 is relying on the base stock to provide a level of lubricity and film strength.
Which is better alone as a lubricant with no additives, POE or PAO? So, I won't agree with Amsoil's "EP" comment.
Boron was all but barely seen in ATF a decade ago. Now, even a lowly ATF has 50ppm with higher end ATFs showing 200ppm or more.


thanks. I contact Amsoil and seems like Amsoil is not GL-4 rated. they also don't think Z1 is GL-4 rated too. its interesting now because although there was no change on the rear differential unit on SH-AWD on RL, RDX, MDX, and Z1 was being spec since 2006. but now Z1 no longer being spec for it beginning mid year 2010, not even the new ATF-DW1. the dual pump fluid is called, and that's where i see a post on the element forum where GL5 was cited.
again, i appreciated for the response and i may switch to D4 for my rear differentials in future.


This logic is very, very wrong. Just because Redline says their ATF will meet the GL-4 requirements, do not interpret this to mean you can use it in ANY application requiring GL-4. Ask Redline if you think I'm trying to just make sales.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

I have an idea , someone might want to call redline and get an answer for the GL-4 claim. I'm sure they didn't just pull it out of nowhere. The D4 may very well have a GL-4 level of gear protection. Or we could continue to be internet experts.....

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
I have an idea , someone might want to call redline and get an answer for the GL-4 claim. I'm sure they didn't just pull it out of nowhere. The D4 may very well have a GL-4 level of gear protection. Or we could continue to be internet experts.....


Even you missed my point. There is a BIG difference between An ATF with "GL-4 level of gear protection" and using an ATF with "GL-4 level of gear protection" in a gear oil application!!!!

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
This logic is very, very wrong. Just because Redline says their ATF will meet the GL-4 requirements, do not interpret this to mean you can use it in ANY application requiring GL-4. Ask Redline if you think I'm trying to just make sales.


I think Redline makes excellent products, but I have never seen any of their data to back up the claim that their or anyone else's ATF offers the same protection as a GL-4 MTF or gear lube.

The Anti-wear additive package and film strength in a GL-4 has always been much more robust than any ATF fluid.