For whatever it's worth - the predecessor was indeed TF0870. I have a bottle on the shelf purchased before the switch to DTF-1.
Redline 75w85 for BMW
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Actually - for what it's worth again - the BMW parts system and some online sites show a transition date from TF0870 to DTF1. I've found a number of online resources which say that they are the same thing and the labelling was changed.
Attached is a grab from realoem, showing that BMW part# changed, and also showing pre 2015 that the fluid was TF0870.
Attached is a grab from realoem, showing that BMW part# changed, and also showing pre 2015 that the fluid was TF0870.
Attachments
I confess I could be wrong
Fwiw just had my oil pan gasket changed at one of the big indy euro shops here, they had to drop the front subframe and diff to do it. They used Liqui Moly 75w-90 for the front diff fluid. Still probably going to use the Redline 75w-85 in the rear, already have it on hand. When I get the chance that is..
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And that means nothing in terms of the actual viscosity, which is why an oil sampling must be done.
If I were to make an educated guess, I would say this fluid would most closely match your transfer case fluid:
Found what may be the only TF-0870 UOA out there. On cursory look it resembles BMW's MTF-LT-3 and Ravenol's MTF3 (links below).
The gears and chain do not appear to need anything special since they are not the usual failure point. However, the clutches do tend to wear out, especially with mismatched tire diameter or when the fluid (~600ml) is never changed.
In my new-to-me xDrive BMW I have been running the Redline MT-LV for ~10k miles and just did a second "clean out" change. The AWD control system adapts to clutch wear on the fly by storing an offset value in degrees (to the nearest 0.1*). A manual relearn using a scan tool is recommended when fluid is changed. According to the software interface the clutch motor offset only changed 0.1* during that OCI.
Questions:
- Clearly I've experienced next to no wear, but since the clutches are transferring torque without locking 95% of the time, can certain additives or high AW/EP levels cause glazing?
- Is it true that an MTF or DCTF (Motul DCTF claims suitability) would be appropriate in this application?
Thank you!
TF0870 Source: https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736224&page=2
BMW MTF-LT-3: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/voa-bmw-mtf-lt-3.117801/
Ravenol MTF3: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/ravenol-75w-mtf3-virgin-oil-analysis-voa.280819/
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I've been down quite the rabbit hole lately, as I'm looking into acquiring a 2012+ BMW 328i xdrive for use as a daily driver, and I'm a firm believer in there being superior lubricants to the factory fill. Seeing as most of these cars are approaching 100k, I'd like to swap all of the fluids out, as I plan on keeping the car for a long period of time.
After wading through the muck that is the engine's LL-01 spec and figuring out what engine oil I'm going to attempt first, I'm now on to drivetrain fluids.
Anyway, all of this to say I'm very interested in figuring out this transfer case fluid spec, so if we need to grab some and send it somewhere to be analyzed, I'm willing to help.
After wading through the muck that is the engine's LL-01 spec and figuring out what engine oil I'm going to attempt first, I'm now on to drivetrain fluids.
Anyway, all of this to say I'm very interested in figuring out this transfer case fluid spec, so if we need to grab some and send it somewhere to be analyzed, I'm willing to help.
TF0870 is original spec, DTF-1 is new spec. IMO, don't fool around with the TC fluid spec figuring that you know better. It is not a super common fluid and it's more important to change it when needed (or more often) and correctly set the level than to attempt to get a "superior" fluid. Ravenol makes one, or just find a parts house like ECS or FCP that sells the genuine fluid and save a few bucks that way (esp with FCP lifetime guarantee if you're inclined to take advantage of that). Punch your VIN into realoem.com to verify what I've reported. Don't forget to reset TC adaptations after changing the TC fluid.
My personal feelings are ditto for the ZF8 transmission fluid, though it's way more common than the TC fluid. Any kind of fluid "superiority" compared to ZF Lifeguard 8 would likely come in the form of longer life, but you want to be changing these fluids anyways. FCP offers a ZF8 service kit with a genuine ZF (not BMW) pan/filter and LG8 fluid for a substantial discount deep enough to make it a no brainer to me for a 60k mi service interval (like $2xx for the whole kit including new pan bolts). I could save a few more bucks with Liquimoly or Pentosin LG8 replacements but personally don't see the point. (Do NOT reset transmission adaptations after changing the fluid)
There is no analysis you or anyone else is willing to pay for that would tell you whether or not a random fluid achieves the BMW requirements.
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While I appreciate the advice and I respect your opinion, I will politely disagree. I have never found a factory fill fluid to be a top-tier fluid in any car I've owned (maybe they are in something like a hypercar). I don't buy into the "just change it more often" camp either. Probably because I drive vehicles at 8/10ths the majority of the time, and I'm not looking for extreme OCI's, just better protection to aid in longevity with the way I enjoy a car. We all know that there are formulations that provide superior protection under all conditions, and I find it hard to believe there's not one for the transfer case of a BMW.
In regards to the ZF8, it is a semi-synthetic fluid, and I can almost guarantee there are superior ones out there. Even the Shell fluid of supposedly identical spec is slightly different and labeled as full synthetic. Also, I will be doing a complete fluid replacement, not just a normal pan and refill.
I may end up using Redline shockproof in the front and rear diffs.
Don't go 2012-2015 328 N20 models unless timing chain guides were replaced with updated ones or you plan to do that job.
LL01/LL04/LL01FE/LL17FE specification have a specific timing chain test for N20 engine. DO NOT try to reinvent the wheel here with "superior" fluids.
Use ZF8, and there is a reason why ZF8 transmissions are most widely used today in luxury passenger vehicles.
Transfer case? Absolutely use DTF-1. I have seen too many posts with issues involving Redline and Motul options for BMW TC. Those are about only top-tier replacement options for BMW TC. Not worth it!
Otherwise, I will see you on F30post or bimmerfest ranting about POS BMW.
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Would you mind posting the complete BMW requirements, so people know what they’re looking for?
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Oil: LL01 gas, LL04 diesel.
LL01 not necessary in N51/52/53/64/55/62/63 engines and their S versions. MB229.5 will do.
Transfer case: DTF-1.
Differentials 75W90 in E models. In F30 OP stated part number 75W85.
Transmission: ZF6 in E models with ZF transmission. Dexron VI in ones with GM transmission.
ZF8 in F models.
That is it.
F series differentials can be a huge rabbit hole. When I went down it for my F10 I determined that 75W90 GL-5 was fine in my rear diff (original spec was either SAF-XO or Synthetik OSP or G1), but my front diff was always spec'd for either G1 or G2 only, which is a 75W85 *** GL-4 *** fluid. (This was at the time, using my own online resources and the dealer parts folks digging into it). Without any further information on why the GL-4 specification I did not risk throwing in a GL-5 like some people seem to do (and some places like FCP put together kits with pick-your-fanboy-fave GL-5 for both diffs). I also noted that manufacturers like Amsoil and Redline pulled recommendations from their application guide and began to state that they had no recommended fluids for my front diff.
I put Amsoil SVG or SVT in my rear diff and genuine G2 in the front, to be safe. To me it seems the risks outweigh the rewards of switching to a "superior" GL-5 in an application that may require GL-4. I'd love concrete info on whether the F series front diffs are different in some way but such information is hard to find, especially when the manufacturer only recommends a specific P/N that is not a widely known specification (like SAF-XO). Personally, I don't know that I buy in to the conspiracy theory that it makes the manufacturer more money. Simplifying the supply chain and parts stocking process to one or two diff lubes in 55gal drums would probably save BMW far more worldwide than it makes them to have a special spec. Using 75W85 could save some fuel (the CAFE blame-game) but why GL-4?
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As big of a Red Line fan as I am, Shockproof is not really a great street fill. I played that game in the Subaru community and you'd certainly be better served by a top shelf "traditional" gear oil. The longevity isn't there and there are rumors it doesn't handle moisture (including humidity?) very well.
On the ZF8- Usually agree there are better fluids than OEM, but in this case the evidence just isn't there that we "need" something else. Ended up just throwing Lifeguard 8 in mine since failures are so uncommon even without servicing them. In the future I may use aftermarket ZF8 specific fluid (Ravenol, Pentosin, etc.). The key here is friction coefficients and that would be really hard to figure out.
Back to the transfer case- there is a known longevity problem here unlike the ZF8 so it's only natural to try "curing" it. Not a pro mechanic who sees these cars daily of course, but clutch problems seem to be the usual issue, and regular changes with matching tires are the likely solution. My 3-series ate it's transfer case at 165k mi after the prior owner put mismatching tires on it...doubt it ever had a fluid change, though clearly they can last a long time. Same as the ZF8, friction coefficient is very important for the clutches and I ended up removing the MT-LV in favor of Ravenol DTF-1 while doing other maintenance.
In theory xDrive transfer cases are nothing special compared to other active transfer cases which take ATF, etc. but we have no idea why the manufacturer has specified this fluid. While the viscosity and additives may look like MTF, the friction properties could be wildly different. Surely if they could consolidate supply chain/stock into one fluid they would have.
Hyundai/Kia/Genesis specify TF0870 as well since they also use Magna ATC units like BMW. VW/Audi/Porsche appears to use a few different fluids depending on model and year, but have not investigated into hardware differences.
Also agree to avoid any N20 prior to April (I think) 2015 build date due to the timing chain disaster- unless it's been replaced or you want to replace it. My local BMW independent mentioned having some cars which are in for their second chain replacement, but it's unclear if the first replacement was with the updated parts or not.
You’re off-target. I asked kschachn about the ‘BMW requirements’ of a specific individual fluid, not a list of what letters go with what parts.
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Only widely known requirement about specific fluid is engine oil. 2018 update of all BMW approvals and introduction of LL17FE have N20 engine test instead of N52 and specific timing chain test and requirements to address issues with guides in N20. Oxidation limit is bumped up even higher (was most stringent before too) which eliminated a lot of excellent oils. They also eliminated 0WXX oils in LL01 and LL04 applications. Why such oxidation requirement is speculation, but probably to increase OCI in B generation engines.
TC as stated is very specific and I am really not sure nor I stumbled on factual, hard data, as why that specific fluid is required. From posts on BMW specific forums there seems to be issues with top tier aftermarket fluids for TC. Redline that has everything BMW and focuses hard on them, didn’t introduced TC option until couple of years ago, 14 years after first xDrive saw light if the day. That IMO means there is something specific about this fluid.
Why BMW made mess with differential fluid is unknown. They also did it with brake pads on F series trying to appease Lexus audience that they wanted to get, so they offered specific compound for “base” brakes that doesn’t dust, which pissed off audience that still considers themselves living.
Low ZDDP and heavier grade is best for N20 (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 comes to mind as first suspect). Best solution is just to go N55,B48/58.
Oh I forgot about that mess with fluids. You are right.
Whatever they are they aren’t going to be ascertained through a $30 spectrographic analysis nor anything else that’s cheap.