Redline 75w85 for BMW

[BMW Dom]

If your transfer case requires a fluid with a 6.X cSt viscosity@100C do you really think any fluid with a 12 cSt viscosity@100C would be appropriate?

I would rather use the Redline since it claims it’s compatible. How do we know what the transfer case “requires “ ?

 

[930.engineering]

If your transfer case requires a fluid with a 6.X cSt viscosity@100C do you really think any fluid with a 12 cSt viscosity@100C would be appropriate?

I'd certainly check what the manufacturer uses first, then search for its properties (VOA ideally, UOA), then look for alternatives.

.

 

[kschachn]

I would rather use the Redline since it claims it’s compatible. How do we know what the transfer case “requires “ ?

Actually don't they say it is "recommended for" and "popular in" that application? Not to wordsmith too deeply but I don't see where it is "compatible." Kind of like when a recommendation does not say "meets requirements."

 

[MolaKule]

Thank you Mola! I think I will just use the Shell transfer case fluid, since it does not seem like many people have used the Redline MT-LV for BMW Xdrive transfer case. I would not have any proplem going aftermarket on transmission fluid. But it's still very weird that BMW specs 2 different 75w85s - 1 for front and 1 for rear. I don't know what year this went into effect.

It's already been discussed that two different differential fluids have been specified.

Let's concentrate on the Transfer Case fluid. I have no financial interest in either Redline or the Shell fluid, but how do you know the Shell TF0870 fluid is the correct fluid or the OEM fluid ?

Again, I would take a sample of the TC fluid and post the analysis results to see if there is a similar aftermarket fluid available.

Many modern Transfer Case fluids have a 100C viscosity that ranges from 5.9 cSt to 7.3 cSt.

 

[930.engineering]

When it comes to gear/transmission oil, recommendations are often worthless. When I was looking MTF suitable for my Mini I stumbled acoss dozens of data sheets that said 'suitable for' BMW MTF LT-2, LT-3 and LT-4 or even MTF-94. The point is, these specs (as far as I know BMW doesn't grant approvals for transmission oils) are conflicting. Most are 75W or 75W-80, while MTF LT-4 is 75W-90 (twice as thick). Not the kind of business practice I appreciate.

If in doubt get the OE fluid for your transfer case. The differentials shouldn't be that critical. Any known brand 75W-85 or 75W-90 GL-5 should suffice.

 

[BMW Dom]

It's already been discussed that two different differential fluids have been specified.

Let's concentrate on the Transfer Case fluid. I have no financial interest in either Redline or the Shell fluid, but how do you know the Shell TF0870 fluid is the correct fluid or the OEM fluid ?

Again, I would take a sample of the TC fluid and post the analysis results to see if there is a similar aftermarket fluid available.

Many modern Transfer Case fluids have a 100C viscosity that ranges from 5.9 cSt to 7.3 cSt.

I'm pretty sure that Shell makes the transfer case fluid and the transmission fluid. I would rather just stick with the Shell or BMW transfer case fluid rather than send a sample of the fluid in.

 

[MolaKule]

When it comes to gear/transmission oil, recommendations are often worthless. When I was looking MTF suitable for my Mini I stumbled acoss dozens of data sheets that said 'suitable for' BMW MTF LT-2, LT-3 and LT-4 or even MTF-94. The point is, these specs (as far as I know BMW doesn't grant approvals for transmission oils) are conflicting. Most are 75W or 75W-80, while MTF LT-4 is 75W-90 (twice as thick).

Thick or thin is a relative term and means little; both kinematic viscosity and the Di additive packages are the important terms here.

Again, you're missing the main point which is: The SAE grade designation does not tell you what the exact kinematic viscosities of the fluids may be.

 

[4WD]

Thick or thin is a relative term and means little; both kinematic viscosity and the Di additive packages are the important terms here.

Again, you're missing the main point which is: The SAE grade designation does not tell you what the exact kinematic viscosities of the fluids may be.

What drives the complexity in this fluid ?

 

[BMW Dom]

Actually don't they say it is "recommended for" and "popular in" that application? Not to wordsmith too deeply but I don't see where it is "compatible." Kind of like when a recommendation does not say "meets requirements."

You're right. It says "Popular in Toyota/Lexus LF 75W, BMW X-Drive and other transfer cases transfer cases calling for Shell TF0870".

It's weird that it doesn't say "recommended for" but instead "popular in".

 

[MolaKule]

What drives the complexity in this fluid ?

I don't understand your post. especially in light of the current topic.

 

[BMW Dom]

I don't understand your post. especially in light of the current topic.

It just further adds to the confusion of this thread.

 

[MolaKule]

You're right. It says "Popular in Toyota/Lexus LF 75W, BMW X-Drive and other transfer cases transfer cases calling for Shell TF0870".

It's weird that it doesn't say "recommended for" but instead "popular in".

The PI sheet says this:

Suitable replacement for:

API GL-4 / GL-3 / GL-1
SAE 70W/75W
BMW DTF 1
BMW X-Drive Transfer Case Fluid
BMW 83 22 0 306 816
BMW 83 22 0 397 244
BMW 83 22 2 409 710
BorgWarner 44-40/44/45/46 Transfer Cases
Cadillac 19331044
Castrol BOT 270A - Graziano Transaxle for Aston Martin, Audi and Lamborghini
Castrol BOT 350 M3
Castrol BOT 303 mod
Chevron GS CALTEX MTF HD 70W
Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep 9.55550-MZ6
Dodge/Fiat 68092630AA
Ford XT-11-QDC
Ford WSS-M2C200-D2
GM 10-4037
GM 19259104
GM 19259105
Honda i-Shift MTF-3
Honda i-Shift MTF-III
Hyundai/Kia 00232-19063
Jaguar/Land Rover C2Z25586
MB A001 989 98 03 09
MB 235.10
MB 235.73
MB 317
MB 001 989 26 03 10
MB A 001 989 98 03 09
Mobilfluid LT
Nissan/Infinity 999MP-TF0870P
Nissan/Infinity TF0870
Porsche 000 043 300 36
Porsche 000 043 301 36
Porsche 000 043 305 63
Ram/Mopar 68049954AA/AC
Ram/Mopar 68089195AA
Shell SPIRAX S6 GHME 70W
Shell TF 0870
SK HK MTF 70W
Toyota MT Gear Oil LV 75W
Toyota 08885-81007
Toyota 08885-81040
Toyota/Lexus transfer case fluid "Genuine Gear Oil LF 75W“ 08885-81080
Toyota/Scion Manual Transmission Oil LV
Toyota/Scion 08885-81001
VW G 052 726
VW/Audi G 052 171
VW/Audi G 052 512 A2
VW/Audi G 055 515
VW/Audi G 052 527 A2
VW/Audi G 052 725
VW/Audi G 060 726 A2
VW/Audi G 070 726 A2

 

[MolaKule]

I'm pretty sure that Shell makes the transfer case fluid and the transmission fluid. I would rather just stick with the Shell or BMW transfer case fluid rather than send a sample of the fluid in.

No, no one knows until a TC sample is analyzed with a valid viscosity result and a general chemical signature is established, you are still in the dark.

 

[BMW Dom]

No, no one knows until a sample is analyzed with a valid viscosity result and a general chemical signature is established, you are still in the dark.

You are correct. FCP euro and others says that it is the same as the BMW transfer case fluid. But, 50 dollars for 1 quart of BMW transfer case fluid isn't too bad.

I think I'll go with Redline 75w90 for front and rear differential. And I'll probably use the Maxlife ATF or the Liquimoly 1800 for the transmission.

 

[930.engineering]

Thick or thin is a relative term and means little; both kinematic viscosity and the Di additive packages are the important terms here.

Again, you're missing the main point which is: The SAE grade designation does not tell you what the exact kinematic viscosities of the fluids may be.

I don't, as I did check both KV at 40°C and at 100°C for all of them. They differ at least by factor 2, but still claim to fulfill certain factory specs. That's why I said those recommendations are worthless, much more so than what's common for engine oils. I know this is slightly OT, however it's certainly worth a dedicated discussion, so let's stop here.

 

[MolaKule]

I don't, as I did check both KV at 40°C and at 100°C for all of them. They differ at least by factor 2, but still claim to fulfill certain factory specs. That's why I said those recommendations are worthless, much more so than what's common for engine oils. I know this is slightly OT, however it's certainly worth a dedicated discussion, so let's stop here.

Recommendations aren't worthless but you do have to be discriminant and test your OEM fluids for viscosity and DI package for a possible matchup.

 

[930.engineering]

Comparing VOAs of both OE and seemingly appropirate alternatives was of course part of the game for me. When recommendations are obviously conflicting, would you actually call them helpful? I'd call them misleading or just wrong. I was surprised to see this happen so often when it comes to gear oils.

 

[MolaKule]

I don't believe in conspiracy plots and I don't think anyone is misleading or lying.

On BITOG we attempt to educate people so they can make educated choices.

Once one is provided the information concerning the SAE gear Grades, the actual viscosity needed, and the proper DI signature, then one can pick the gear lube(s) needed for his/her vehicle.

For example, here is but one of the many sources of information that can be found on BITOG by doing a Search.

 

[930.engineering]

I appreciate your effort, but I did read it some time ago. I'm reading on the forum for some years so far.

So you're saying you've never come across conflicting claims? Again, I'm talking about transmission oils.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Attached old copies of BMW 8/2018 charts of front and rear final drive fluids used in all models back when it was easier to find these things online. I note that the 2011 switchover to new fluid types in rear final drive does not correspond with any hardware change (every part# I ever checked was the same before and after the fluid spec change) leading me to believe the change was due to a supplier change or a fuel efficiency initiative rather than the hard parts truly requiring a different fluid.

In my F10, I chose to interpret the requirements as SAF-XO rear, G2 front. I went with Amsoil SVG in the rear and genuine G2 in the front (after reading lots of stories online of F10 front diffs being oddly hard on fluid, suffering failures etc...). I may change my stance on genuine G2 by the next time I change it, which is still years away.

Nothing but the BMW genuine fluid goes in my transfer case, which was already replaced once under warranty. I believe I still have a bottle of the predecessor to DTF-1 on my shelf which I might use next change.