Hey rp. With that iron I`d call Terry Dyson. I`m almost tempted to pay him myself just to see what he says!
Redline 5-30 3348 miles Dakota 4.7 Issues
- Thread starter jeremiah2360
- Start date
- Status
I have an '03 Ram with a 4.7 and manual tranny. I have the foamy stuff in the filler neck quite a bit too, but I've never seen it get bad enough to turn the oil off color when I change it. I'm sure there is excess moisture in the oil, so I do frequently look at the oil on the dipstick to check for foamed oil on it.
I used RL 5W-30 in this thing last OC abut 4K ago. (total of 34K on truck) So far, I am not impressed, my engine rattles like an old sewing machine for 30 seconds when I start it cold in the morning. I have previously always used havoline Synthetic 5W-30 or the same weight in M1, It never rattled at start up in the morning and felt smoother all around. I also changed the manual trans lube with RL "MTL", Now I can hardly shift it when its cold out, and when it gets warm, I have to wait way too long to downshift so the gears slow down, otherwise it will grind. I'm switching to Syncromesh real soon since I can't stand the way it shifts now. Mopar MTF is $15 per bottle here, too much in my book.
So, overall, my experience with Red Line is not what I was expecting. I have no VOA's or UOA's to base any hard facts on, just my seat of the pants.
I used RL 5W-30 in this thing last OC abut 4K ago. (total of 34K on truck) So far, I am not impressed, my engine rattles like an old sewing machine for 30 seconds when I start it cold in the morning. I have previously always used havoline Synthetic 5W-30 or the same weight in M1, It never rattled at start up in the morning and felt smoother all around. I also changed the manual trans lube with RL "MTL", Now I can hardly shift it when its cold out, and when it gets warm, I have to wait way too long to downshift so the gears slow down, otherwise it will grind. I'm switching to Syncromesh real soon since I can't stand the way it shifts now. Mopar MTF is $15 per bottle here, too much in my book.
So, overall, my experience with Red Line is not what I was expecting. I have no VOA's or UOA's to base any hard facts on, just my seat of the pants.
I agree with jeremiah2360, contact Terry. You will not be sorry. If you are like me, after you get his report, you will smack yourself is the head and say "why did I not think of that"quote:
Originally posted by jeremiah2360:
I would contact Terry. The Iron-Aluminum(piston scuff?), Sodium-Potassium(headgasket?) readings would scare me. They are out of line with other 4.7s analysis. Type in 4.7 in the search engine and see for yourself. Hopefully he would tell you your fine and not to listen to hacks like me
What baffles me about this entire thread is that the original poster said he was going to do a run on Castrol dino and get back to us. When he got back to us, he was still posting more chunk blowing Redline UOA's...
I'll take a shot. Iron looks high. Nitration is a bit on the high side. What were your insoluables? Vis 48.0?? That oil is beat to ****, it's now a 5w10.
On the other hand, lead wear of 0 is excellent.
I'd call Terry to have a look at this. Oh, and I'd use a different oil too.
"Oh, and I'd use a different oil too."
It's the oil that's the problem, for sure, but just to be really sure could you hold that engine a little closer to your computer, it's hard to see from here. Just think of the time and effort saved by changing the brand oil. And change the viscosity too. Don't have to bother with having a good mechanic look around and fuss with things under the hood, no sir, we got an oil analysis right there in front of us. And with a dozen oil geeks looking on, we've got this problem solved. **** the torpedos, full speed ahead. Now, where is that next UOA, we're ready......
1) This motor has shown consistently high upper cylinder wear, ie Fe/Cr/Al/Ni levels....
2) It has shown Na and K levels higher than you'd expect just from the RL additive package. Note: The fact he's using Redline is making this particular data hard for folks to get their arms around.
I think there are two inter-related issues:
1) An intake leak that is allowing silicon and alumina and road salt into the intake manifold and causing abnormal wear.
2) A slight but persistent coolant leak since the engine was new, that is caused rapid oil degradation.
A bad intake manifold gasket could cause both these problems.... That's what I'd look for - on both sides of this V-8.
TS
2) It has shown Na and K levels higher than you'd expect just from the RL additive package. Note: The fact he's using Redline is making this particular data hard for folks to get their arms around.
I think there are two inter-related issues:
1) An intake leak that is allowing silicon and alumina and road salt into the intake manifold and causing abnormal wear.
2) A slight but persistent coolant leak since the engine was new, that is caused rapid oil degradation.
A bad intake manifold gasket could cause both these problems.... That's what I'd look for - on both sides of this V-8.
TS
Terry, I wonder if a mechanic with eyes on the problem might be of some help, too. I'm sure that even your hot rod 4-banger lives by more than oil analysis reports. By the way, were is the posting for your last uoa, haven't seen it.
Seriously, has anyone tried a borascope into the internals of the engine to see if the evil sludge monster is there? Or some transduction of energy between the cylinder walls and pistons to test ring seals? Or maybe the PCV valve is just not working and causing the oil to step-and-fetch too much? I know the oil is in the problem but is it the cause or the victim? That should be a category, too.
Seriously, has anyone tried a borascope into the internals of the engine to see if the evil sludge monster is there? Or some transduction of energy between the cylinder walls and pistons to test ring seals? Or maybe the PCV valve is just not working and causing the oil to step-and-fetch too much? I know the oil is in the problem but is it the cause or the victim? That should be a category, too.
I've ran the engine on Castrol GTX 5w30 for the last 3k mi. I just changed the oil again in order to flush out the Redline. As soon as I have couple hundred miles on this change I will pull a sample. I have a couple questions though:
If there is an intake leak:
1) Wouldn't the cooling system pressure test have shown some leakdown or something?
2) Possible visible, or "smellable" coolant in dirty oil?
3) Oil in coolant?
If there is an intake leak:
1) Wouldn't the cooling system pressure test have shown some leakdown or something?
2) Possible visible, or "smellable" coolant in dirty oil?
3) Oil in coolant?
LarryL,
I am a mechanic by trade. There are no visible leaks, noticable defects, or running problems with this engine. I am waiting to get the OUA back from the Castrol before I go pulling spark plugs. Everyone knows that car dealers/manufacturers will void your warranty if they see even the slightest evidence of an invasive procedure without them doing it.
I know for a fact that the problem is the excess condensation. My reason for bringing up the issue is that the condensation appeared EXCESSIVE.
I am a mechanic by trade. There are no visible leaks, noticable defects, or running problems with this engine. I am waiting to get the OUA back from the Castrol before I go pulling spark plugs. Everyone knows that car dealers/manufacturers will void your warranty if they see even the slightest evidence of an invasive procedure without them doing it.
I know for a fact that the problem is the excess condensation. My reason for bringing up the issue is that the condensation appeared EXCESSIVE.
Please keep us posted...
Soot 19
This is a high reading for such a short interval and should be 0, indicating that there is some buildup going on internally.
Fe 7: That's 4ppm/1000mi. or more.
MW
This is a high reading for such a short interval and should be 0, indicating that there is some buildup going on internally.
Fe 7: That's 4ppm/1000mi. or more.
MW
Originally posted by yours truly, in response to John Browning...
True, the iron is still at about 4ppm per thousand miles, which is markedly down from the Redline UOA of about 12 ppm per thousand. It's a short UOA, but the evidence is there it would seem. Look at the other wear metal comparisons too.
Dino oil... game, set, match.
Dan
Being right is fun! (Some of you Redline advocates should try it sometime).quote:
Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
If those are indeed the issues, the Castrol dino oil will show the same problems.
If the Castrol UOA comes back looking significantly better (which I believe it will) I think we can certainly blame the Redline for attacking the bearings in your engine.
Hopefully there won't be so much schrapnel left by the Redline that it taints the Castrol's UOA...
Let's just see what happens.
In my corner, I have a hat ready to eat if I'm wrong.
In the Redline advocate's corner... well... I'm betting they have a notebook with several more excuses which haven't been used yet.
Dan
True, the iron is still at about 4ppm per thousand miles, which is markedly down from the Redline UOA of about 12 ppm per thousand. It's a short UOA, but the evidence is there it would seem. Look at the other wear metal comparisons too.
Dino oil... game, set, match.
Dan
Dan, you're probably typing this as you're unloading the leaded gas from your fuel tank truck right?
MW
Good one.
No, I'm hanging around the house on honey-do patrol today.
Dan
Dan
- Status
Similar threads
