Redline 5-30 3348 miles Dakota 4.7 Issues

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Hey rp. With that iron I`d call Terry Dyson. I`m almost tempted to pay him myself just to see what he says!
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I have an '03 Ram with a 4.7 and manual tranny. I have the foamy stuff in the filler neck quite a bit too, but I've never seen it get bad enough to turn the oil off color when I change it. I'm sure there is excess moisture in the oil, so I do frequently look at the oil on the dipstick to check for foamed oil on it.

I used RL 5W-30 in this thing last OC abut 4K ago. (total of 34K on truck) So far, I am not impressed, my engine rattles like an old sewing machine for 30 seconds when I start it cold in the morning. I have previously always used havoline Synthetic 5W-30 or the same weight in M1, It never rattled at start up in the morning and felt smoother all around. I also changed the manual trans lube with RL "MTL", Now I can hardly shift it when its cold out, and when it gets warm, I have to wait way too long to downshift so the gears slow down, otherwise it will grind. I'm switching to Syncromesh real soon since I can't stand the way it shifts now. Mopar MTF is $15 per bottle here, too much in my book.
So, overall, my experience with Red Line is not what I was expecting. I have no VOA's or UOA's to base any hard facts on, just my seat of the pants.
 
quote:

Originally posted by jeremiah2360:
I would contact Terry. The Iron-Aluminum(piston scuff?), Sodium-Potassium(headgasket?) readings would scare me. They are out of line with other 4.7s analysis. Type in 4.7 in the search engine and see for yourself. Hopefully he would tell you your fine and not to listen to hacks like me
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I agree with jeremiah2360, contact Terry. You will not be sorry. If you are like me, after you get his report, you will smack yourself is the head and say "why did I not think of that"
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What baffles me about this entire thread is that the original poster said he was going to do a run on Castrol dino and get back to us. When he got back to us, he was still posting more chunk blowing Redline UOA's...

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quote:

Originally posted by rpwilliams:
Oil - Redline 5w30
Miles on truck - 12045
Miles on oil - 5008

Miscellaneous
A/F - N
Fuel - N
H2O - N
Viscosity - 48.0

Infrared Analysis
Soot - 27
Oxidation - 42
Nitration - 73
Sulfur - 0

Wear Metals(PPM)
Copper - 3
Iron - 61
Chrome - 2
Aluminum - 10
Silicon - 10
Lead - 0
Sodium - 37
Tin - 0
Nickel - 2
Barium - 1
Silver - 0
Zinc - 1294
Boron - 0
Calcium - 2516
Phosphor - 1158
Magnesium - 13
Potasium - 5
Molybendum - 592
Titanium - 0
Vanadium - 0

Lab Comments
- Wear metals consistant for oil change interval
- Resample at next oil change interval to monitor


Comments anyone?


I'll take a shot. Iron looks high. Nitration is a bit on the high side. What were your insoluables? Vis 48.0?? That oil is beat to ****, it's now a 5w10.

On the other hand, lead wear of 0 is excellent.

I'd call Terry to have a look at this. Oh, and I'd use a different oil too.
 
quote:

What baffles me about this entire thread is that the original poster said he was going to do a run on Castrol dino and get back to us. When he got back to us, he was still posting more chunk blowing Redline UOA's...

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Is 'chunk blowing' a category that Blackstone and Butler Labs don't list? Or do you pay extra, like a TBN test? What is the accepted range for chunk blowing? Does it have to be temperature compensated? Is there an ASTM standard to deal with? I wish you would have brough up chunk blowing before this. How will I know what I've been missing by not getting a chunk blowning reading on my oil. I though this site was here to help, but to leave out chunk blowing is a terrible miscarriage of information technology. You'd think TooSlick and Amsoil would have mentioned it, or Terry Dyson and his buddy MolaKule at least brough it up for discussion. And I guess that drag racers don't blow chunks because not a word has been expressed by Royal Purple followers. And the shrines erected by GC faithful must work, after all, because they have not spoken of chunks. Maybe it's the chants before the pyramid shrines in the light of a single candle that have done the trick. Please, help us close the chunk blowing gap so we can go back in the garage and dust our stacks of oil and look for our LC measuring bottle. We must not allow Red Line to make us suffer from a chunk blowing gap.
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It's the oil that's the problem, for sure, but just to be really sure could you hold that engine a little closer to your computer, it's hard to see from here. Just think of the time and effort saved by changing the brand oil. And change the viscosity too. Don't have to bother with having a good mechanic look around and fuss with things under the hood, no sir, we got an oil analysis right there in front of us. And with a dozen oil geeks looking on, we've got this problem solved. **** the torpedos, full speed ahead. Now, where is that next UOA, we're ready......
 
1) This motor has shown consistently high upper cylinder wear, ie Fe/Cr/Al/Ni levels....

2) It has shown Na and K levels higher than you'd expect just from the RL additive package. Note: The fact he's using Redline is making this particular data hard for folks to get their arms around.


I think there are two inter-related issues:

1) An intake leak that is allowing silicon and alumina and road salt into the intake manifold and causing abnormal wear.

2) A slight but persistent coolant leak since the engine was new, that is caused rapid oil degradation.

A bad intake manifold gasket could cause both these problems.... That's what I'd look for - on both sides of this V-8.

TS
 
LarryL, you are not completely satisfied with the "scientific" process of the community interpretation of this analysis ?
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Terry, I wonder if a mechanic with eyes on the problem might be of some help, too. I'm sure that even your hot rod 4-banger lives by more than oil analysis reports. By the way, were is the posting for your last uoa, haven't seen it.

Seriously, has anyone tried a borascope into the internals of the engine to see if the evil sludge monster is there? Or some transduction of energy between the cylinder walls and pistons to test ring seals? Or maybe the PCV valve is just not working and causing the oil to step-and-fetch too much? I know the oil is in the problem but is it the cause or the victim? That should be a category, too.
 
I've ran the engine on Castrol GTX 5w30 for the last 3k mi. I just changed the oil again in order to flush out the Redline. As soon as I have couple hundred miles on this change I will pull a sample. I have a couple questions though:

If there is an intake leak:

1) Wouldn't the cooling system pressure test have shown some leakdown or something?

2) Possible visible, or "smellable" coolant in dirty oil?

3) Oil in coolant?
 
LarryL,

I am a mechanic by trade. There are no visible leaks, noticable defects, or running problems with this engine. I am waiting to get the OUA back from the Castrol before I go pulling spark plugs. Everyone knows that car dealers/manufacturers will void your warranty if they see even the slightest evidence of an invasive procedure without them doing it.

I know for a fact that the problem is the excess condensation. My reason for bringing up the issue is that the condensation appeared EXCESSIVE.
 
Soot 19
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This is a high reading for such a short interval and should be 0, indicating that there is some buildup going on internally.

Fe 7: That's 4ppm/1000mi. or more.

MW
 
Originally posted by yours truly, in response to John Browning...
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quote:

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
If those are indeed the issues, the Castrol dino oil will show the same problems.

If the Castrol UOA comes back looking significantly better (which I believe it will) I think we can certainly blame the Redline for attacking the bearings in your engine.

Hopefully there won't be so much schrapnel left by the Redline that it taints the Castrol's UOA...
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Let's just see what happens.
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In my corner, I have a hat ready to eat if I'm wrong.

In the Redline advocate's corner... well... I'm betting they have a notebook with several more excuses which haven't been used yet.
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Dan


Being right is fun! (Some of you Redline advocates should try it sometime).
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True, the iron is still at about 4ppm per thousand miles, which is markedly down from the Redline UOA of about 12 ppm per thousand. It's a short UOA, but the evidence is there it would seem. Look at the other wear metal comparisons too.

Dino oil... game, set, match.
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Dan
 
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Dan, you're probably typing this as you're unloading the leaded gas from your fuel tank truck right?
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MW
 
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