Red Line 5w20, 20K miles, VW Golf 1.9L TDI ALH

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

The advantage of an oil pressure gauge is that it is effectively an viscosity meter. It will tell you exactly how thick or thin an oil really is .....


Not really, it just tell you about the oil pressure in the engine oil circuit. Oil pump bypass, engine clearance, engine temp, engine size, oil coolant circuit, etc. all effect the reading of the oil pressure. I highly doubt you can tell the different between a 40WT oil vs a 50WT oil using an oil pressure gauge in my Chevy 350 pickup truck.

 

[CATERHAM]

Your mistaken about that. Since an oil pressure gauge measures the back pressure associated with oil flowing through the bearings etc of an engine it is effectively an viscometer. But to be truly accurate you also need an oil temperature gauge and a tachometer.

I posted the oil pressure differences of a dozen different oils (including RL 5W-20) in the following thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2276634&page=1

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But to be truly accurate you also need an oil temperature gauge and a tachometer.


Like I said, an automotive oil pressure gauge is not really a viscometer.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But to be truly accurate you also need an oil temperature gauge and a tachometer.

Like I said, an automotive oil pressure gauge is not really a viscometer.

I'm not the first person to refer to an OP gauge as a "viscometer". There are SAE papers on the subject matter.

 

[zanzabar]

Any update on your 0w-5 fill AZ?

 

[azsynthetic]

Only 17K miles so far. I am going for 25k OCI.

My car overheat a couple of times because both of my coolant fans went out at the same time this month. I figured it was about time at 267K miles for a new fan anyway. The car still feel the same afterward so I will continue on until probably November for the UOA.

 

[skyship]

Not so sure that playing with ultra low viscosity oils and additives is worth the extra wear. The bypass filters are good, but I wonder how the figures would compare with the best of the oils recommended by VW, changed at the recommended service interval. If you keep changing everything and don't compare with a manfacturers standard, I can't see how you can interpret the UOA's.
Low viscosity oil might improve the fuel consumption, but the jump you observed is far too big to be from the oil change, It could be driver style, air temp change, air filter, load, EGR, fuel formula, AC use and even tyre pressure changes. A good blast down the autobahn at high power for example, can improve the next economy figures because it burns off some carbon deposits.
If you experiment with additives, which can be risky, I would recommend using one from the same company that makes the engine oil, so you don't get an interaction between the different additives. 99% of special oil additives don't work well enough to be worth paying for and confuse UOA results.
I'm still reading up on Liqui Moly Ceretec and if it might be worth a try, although so far it seems to shift the wear from the bearings and rings to the head.

 

[azsynthetic]

I have been doing this since I bought the car new so what risk are you talking about at 267K miles? I could not break into the 50mpg when factory stock and now having problem getting below 50mpg even if I tried. I am willing to sacrifice engine wear to achieve better mileage. Why? because I can and am doing it while you are still playing the what-if game.

Going from 45pmg to 60mpg is a 33% reduction in fuel cost for me(about $700 per year at the current diesel price). That is hard fact and not: a) still reading on xxx, b) might be worth a try, c) although so far it semms, d) etc.

Your recommendation is worthless to me based on your lack of experience in this matter.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I have been doing this since I bought the car new so what risk are you talking about at 267K miles? I could not break into the 50mpg when factory stock and now having problem getting below 50mpg even if I tried. I am willing to sacrifice engine wear to achieve better mileage. Why? because I can and am doing it while you are still playing the what-if game.

Going from 45pmg to 60mpg is a 33% reduction in fuel cost for me(about $700 per year at the current diesel price). That is hard fact and not: a) still reading on xxx, b) might be worth a try, c) although so far it semms, d) etc.


Your recommendation is worthless to me based on your lack of experience in this matter.


I love to see people charge ahead on an experiment. I'd have guessed the odds were against you, but am glad I didn't put any money on it. I don't know why everyone can't just look at this as in interesting experiment where someone else is taking the risks and we get to see the results... Either crash-n-burn or flying off into the sunset. As a spectator, I'm happy either way for the addition to my knowledge base, but obviously I hope for the best for the sake of the experimenter.

CAVEAT: Obviously, and I think AZ understands this, such an option isn't going to work in every case Anyone who is contemplating such a drastic step should do as az did and thorough research and plan the steps.

 

[zanzabar]

+1

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
My car is also an 03' and 80-90% of my driving is on the highway at 60-65. The jump from 49 to 57 mpg has a few upgrades. They are EGR deletion, racing intake, 205/70-15 tires, bypass filter, adding 2T oil at fill up. Going from x-40 to x-30 oil alone got me to 54 mpg. I track all of my fuel burns since new.

My goal for this vehicle is mileage and not minimal engine wear. My driving is pretty much the same everyday, about 140 miles round trip with just me in the car.


Since you deleted the EGR did you clean the intake manifold? That alone will improve efficiency & MPG depending on the state it was in. Racing Intake I'm guessing is a OMI style or do you mean like a cone air filter? TDI's really don't benefit from a cone air filter so I hope it's not that. The 2 stoke oil would lube the injection pump & help eek maybe another .2-.3 mpg out but nothing else really.

The big question is are you hand calculating your fuel economy of relying only on the scan gauge? While we all love to trust that MPG meter they usually inflate themselves quite a bit at times. Also do you vent the tank and fill right to the rim everytime because if you are just going by the click on the fuel pump your numbers will be skewed quite badly.

I can't comment on the light engine oils use because do to the heavier loads on the bearings I think in the end it will be fools errand. In other words...Penny wise but pound foolish just to eek out a few more miles to end up costing you a rebuild in the future.

I do agree though that most people could easily extend their OCI's on TDI's with a little care. I was always interested to see how the computer would determine it with the installation of the oil temp/level sensor in the pan. That was standard overseas the "flexible service" concept.

Good Luck

 

[azsynthetic]

I did the EGR deletion over 250K miles ago. There was nothing to clean in the intake. I have an OMI and a DG race pipes along with a straight through 3" exhaust. The scanguage is surprisingly accurate if you tune it for the correct speed and fill up amount. I manually calculated a few times and the scanguage was within 0.2 mpg. The tank was vented and I always fill to the rim.

You can think all you want about light engine oil while I am doing it. Who are they going to believe, me or you? I just crossed over 270K yesterday so when do you think I will be doing a rebuild? BTW, I only have one timing belt change so far and I am not looking to do another one any time soon. You either know how to maintain a car or you don't. Follow the owner manual if you don't. Another 5K and I will have my 25K OCI for you all to talk about.

 

[Thermo1223]

Don't take it the wrong way you know that a lot of people claim 50-60MPG but never vent. Obviously you deleted the EGR from day one so ya you have nothing to worry about.

You'll be doing a rebuild when the lead it bearings finally wears away to nothing, could be tomorrow, could be 5 years from now. I personally just don't see the need for the added risk. You do so go for it.

It has nothing to with knowing how to maintain the car or not since by your own admission with the timing belt change interval you clearly do not. If you did you would know anything past 100k is borrowed time. While in your case I don't think you would need 100% replacement of all parts but a belt & tensioner change every 100k would give piece of mind. It seems quite foolish to pay for the high end oil, place your faith in it but have that all squashed early by a lousy belt when it snaps.

Either way you have quite the experiment going and it's commendable but the owner manuals states certain things for a reason. That is how the car was set to be maintained not by someone's experiment. That said good luck, I'm rooting for your success.

 

[zanzabar]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Another 5K and I will have my 25K OCI for you all to talk about.


Sweet! Can't wait to see it.

Note, I have a feeling this might do "ok" on this ALH TDI, but for Pete's sake don't do this on a PD!

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223

It has nothing to with knowing how to maintain the car or not since by your own admission with the timing belt change interval you clearly do not. If you did you would know anything past 100k is borrowed time. It seems quite foolish to pay for the high end oil, place your faith in it but have that all squashed early by a lousy belt when it snaps.


This is where you are wrong. I check the belt on a biweekly basis and unless I see an abnormal wear pattern, it is still good to go. A belt that snaps can happen at anytime and not just after 100K miles. I don't just buy high end oil and put my faith in it. I do an experiment that involved tracking vehicles usage, oil usage, UOA, miles driven, etc. Part of this is for tax write off and also for a reduction in my maintenance schedule. There are 9 cars and trucks that I have to maintain and this is just for my family. If you add my parents, relatives, friends, etc. then I am closer to 30 cars. Plus, there are the motorcycles and ATVs, and a host of small engines. Except for my own vehicles, everyone else is on the OEM schedules.

It is obvious that you do not know when an engine will wear out and needing a rebuild. Tomorrow or five years is not an answer. If you read this whole thread you would have known that I will sacrifice engine wear for better mileage. At the current fuel price I am saving over $700 per year with all my mods. A little less lead/iron/aluminum/etc. don't save me anything now or in the long run.

 

[Jim Allen]

AZ you just go for it. I believe you are honest enough to present the whole story no matter how it goes. With as many miles as you already have on this oil, it's pretty hard to be a naysayer/doomsayer.

 

[k1rod]

I also have an ALH TDI. The nagging thought I keep having on this is that I know VW wants to be able to brag about how good the fuel mileage is on their TDI's. If there are no problems using a 30W or 20W or

a 5W, Why wouldn't they have spec'd one of these lighter weight oils so they could clain and advertise the better fuel mileage? Now I can understand how a 30W might work just fine and figure that VW spec'd a 40W out of an abundance of caution, but a 20W or a 5W? How could VW have gotten it so far off? I would be very nervous running the test you are doing but like several others have said... I wish you well. If it doesn't work out, I'm sure Derek at Exklusiv Motorsports would be happy to drop another motor in there for you.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: k1rod
I can understand how a 30W might work just fine and figure that VW spec'd a 40W out of an abundance of caution, but a 20W or a 5W? How could VW have gotten it so far off?


VW used to spec 60WT oil for hot climate for the ALH in its early year. So, what is your confusion?

I don't think VW would spec uncommon street oil such as 0W5 for their world products. Can you name 5 street legal 0W5 oil brands? How about street legal 10WT?

3.5K miles to the UOA and counting down. Car ran fine and I am now back to 60+mpg without A/C.

 

[jayg]

I may have missed it but it this a manual transmission?

I'd love to see pictures of as well if you had any readily available.

You're doing a great job seeing how far you can push it, through research.

 

[azsynthetic]

It is a five speed manual transmission. I will take a few pics when I change oil.