Red Line 5w-40 8119 miles 2003 BMW 300Ci M54

[shanneba]

Latest UOA from my 2003 BMW 330Ci M54.
An Actual winter this time since I moved back to Indiana in Jan 2010. Earlier UOAs are from Houston, Tx. Fewer short trip now so the TBN seemed to hold up better.

I installed the BMW Performance intake (paper filter) last fall and had Dinan Stage 2 software installed in Feb of this year.

I refilled with 6 quarts of Red Line 5w-30 plus an older quart of Red Line 5w-40 that should still have the high moly.
I figure the 100C viscosity should be around 11.2-11.2 for the mix.


Code:


Miles on oil 5011 5000 4300 5958 4514 5347 5017 3839 7,250 5,100 7786 7400 5643 8119

Total miles 21130 26100 31407 37365 41879 47226 52245 56084 63,334 68,400 71120 78494 84137 92256

Date 05/05 10/05 3/06 6/06 3/07 6/07 3/08 9/08 10/08 6/09 6/09 12/09 8/10 4/12/11

Make up oil 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.5 0.0 0.0 0.0

Oil Brand BMW Castrol Castrol BMW Castrol CastrolCastrolCastrol RL RL RL RL RL Red Line

Weight 5w-30 0w-30 0w-30 5w-30 0w-30 0w-30 0w-30 0w-30 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40



Filter BMW Mann BMW BMW Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann Mann



ALUMINUM 4 2 2 2 2 2 4 2 2 4 2 3 3 5

CHROMIUM 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

IRON 9 7 6 4 8 6 11 9 7 7 9 8 7 10

COPPER 28 22 15 18 22 8 15 9 5 17 21 15 17 19

LEAD 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 4 1 1

TIN 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2

MOLYBDENUM 124 19 4 104 16 4 3 2 3 149 207 33 14 9

NICKEL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1

MANGANESE 3 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 2 1 1

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 9 1 6 1 2 0 8 3 2 3 5 2 4 5

BORON 38 9 3 21 4 2 3 2 1 4 5 2 3 3

SILICON 5 3 3 3 3 2 4 3 4 6 7 5 4 4

SODIUM 2 4 3 5 3 3 4 2 3 9 12 7 5 13

CALCIUM 3446 2125 1704 2463 2702 2985 1864 1891 2452 2142 2574 2530 2677 2388

MAGNESIUM 18 311 455 83 129 147 448 551 86 30 36 17 16 14

PHOSPHORUS 853 748 781 662 737 782 872 885 988 1032 1134 1076 1182 985

ZINC 1050 889 964 847 878 1001 1115 1087 1282 1228 1446 1345 1363 1056

BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0



SUS @ 210F 65.6 62.5 63.2 64.1 63.8 65.8 64.2 65.5 73.9 78.2 78.4 77.6 75.7 78.6

cSt @ 100C 11.76 10.91 11.11 11.35 11.27 11.82 11.38 11.75 13.97 15.08 15.11 14.92 14.43 15.16

Flashpoint F 375 375 325 415 360 395 380 400 440 385 410 420 410 390

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0

Water % 0.0 0.0 tr 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0

Insolubles % 0.3 0.3 0.2 0.3 0.2 0.2 0.2 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3

TBN 1.8 4.0 4.7 3.2 2.9 2.6 2.9 4.9 4.0 1.7 1.3 2.7 3.2 2.5


Blackstone Comments:
Note copper. It's still lingering a little higher than average, but all other metals are reading normally, and
some are reading better than average despite your longer oil run. As we mentioned last time, maybe this level of
copper (give or take a few ppm) is going to be normal for your engine at this stage in its life. We should also note that
since you ran this oil longer than the last, copper is actually better on a per-mile basis. The trace of fuel is not a
problem. The viscosity was a little higher than average. The TBN read 2.5, still good.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I just wonder if some of the "metals" like copper that show up are just because of how the esters fight with the metal so to speak? Does the POE based oils like RL kinda "etch" into the metal initally causing these readings?

Just seems RL UOA's always show high metal content. Just trying to figure out the why that is. Especailly if it has been used in the engine for quite some time.

Is this good for the engine??

Jeff

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Just seems RL UOA's always show high metal content. Just trying to figure out the why that is. Especailly if it has been used in the engine for quite some time.


Compared to the Castrol, copper is down quite a bit per mile. Note the intervals. It just seems like this engine spits copper for some reason. Oil cooler? Is it normal for this type of engine?

 

[shanneba]

No oil cooler on this model.

The copper is about twice the Blackstone universal averages.
My iron wear is about half the Blackstone universal averages. (No mobil 1 UOAs in this car

)
My lead and tin are lower than the averages.
I don't know how many miles the current Blackstone Universal averages are- In May 2005 and 10/2008 they indicated about 6000 miles.

I wish I knew for sure what else in the engine might be a source for copper. I wonder if it could be the double Vanos cam gears and pistons. It really isn't enough to make we worry.
I was thinking maybe it was caused by using Chevron gas (in Houston) with Techron. Almost every tank in this OCI had 2-4 ounces of Red Line S1 added mostly to Shell gas, no Chevrons here.

Code:


My unit averages Blackstone universal averages



ALUMINUM 3 4

CHROMIUM 0 0

IRON 8 15

COPPER 17 9

LEAD 1 4

TIN 0 1

MOLYBDENUM 49 112

NICKEL 0 0

MANGANESE 1 2

SILVER 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0

POTASSIUM 4 3

BORON 4 51

SILICON 4 5

SODIUM 5 12

CALCIUM 2425 2454

MAGNESIUM 167 108

PHOSPHORUS 908 886

ZINC 1111 1053

BARIUM 0 0

 

[dparm]

The copper is fairly consistent, so I wouldn't worry yet.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

and where did all the Moly go?? My RL 5/30 has about 800ppm of moly and your WAY DOWN, so is it bonding to the metal parts? or just wears away?

 

[shanneba]

The 5w-40 formula was changed a couple of years ago and the moly removed. I posted a VOA that had no moly at the same time as another forum member. Dave indicated it was because the 5w-40 is also a diesel oil and the moly was removed to meet the new spec.
Dave spoke with the chemist and 5W40 and 15W40 no longer have moly. The reason is to meet sulfated ash requirements for CI4

I do have a few quarts of the older formula with the 700-800ppm of moly.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1264593

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I was going to do a 5/30 vs. 5/40 RL comparo in my Evo. I am running the 5/30 now. I think I will pass on the 5/40 then if it has no moly. I think the moly is one of the reasons the car starts easier and gets better MPG's. I can't "prove" that, but compared to other oils without all that moly there is a noticable difference in MPG's. Its only theory at this point since I doubt that the POE based oil is any better than PAO based for MPG's.

If I ever feel a need to bump up a grade in RL oils, Maybe I will try the 10/40 then. So far so good with the 5/30. The car likes it, and I hope that the UOA's are good. I plan on doing one soon. I have about 3K miles on the oil thus far. I will change it soon just as a baseline for 3K miles. My Next change will be at 5K miles. I then may go to 7500 miles but that is the MAX I will go on a turbo charged car with a 200hp per liter output, some may argue with me on that, but thats just me.

Jeff