Recovering a roof

[paulri]

Waiting on a quote from roofer who visited my house this morning (see previous thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/comp-shingle-for-old-home.392364/page-2#post-7157937). He will give me two quotes, one for simply repairing the damage I told him about, and a second for the entire roof (the comp shingle currently on it is 25 years old). The other quote will be for recovering the roof, which involves leaving the current shingle on, and then simply laying down new shingle over that.

Now I really wouldn't know--which is why I'm posting here--but I wanted to get other folks opinions of this. Is this kind of like putting a new paint job on a car, without taking the old paint off--as if, the new paint will peel off when the old paint does, too? Would this give me less longevity on the new shingle, than if I had them tear off the old stuff and then put down the new roof?

 

[demarpaint]

I would make sure if you decide on "recovering the roof" that you won't have a problem later on selling the house. IIRC when I was house hunting last spring with my friends for their son's house that he was told by banks that if the house had more than one roof on it they would not give him a mortgage. This was for L.I. NY, it might vary depending on where you live.

 

[Lubener]

Tear off is the best way but most expensive.

If your existing shingles are of the three tab design, you can go over that provided they are not crumbling apart and the plywood decking is solid. If they are dimensional shingles, you have to tear them off before new shingles can be installed because the surface is irregular.. There's not really a problem with just a reroof. You can save money doing that. I did that and still got 30 leak free years out of the roof back in 1994. . You have to keep in mind that the manufacturers shingle warranty is likely voided when you apply the new shingles over old. With two layers on the deck, if something were to happen, water would have to penetrate through two shingle layers plus the underlayment before if gets in your attic.

 

[alarmguy]

I would make sure if you decide on "recovering the roof" that you won't have a problem later on selling the house. IIRC when I was house hunting last spring with my friends for their son's house that he was told by banks that if the house had more than one roof on it they would not give him a mortgage. This was for L.I. NY, it might vary depending on where you live.

That’s interesting. I never heard a bank denying a buyer a house based on its condition although this was 20 years ago, I represented more house sales,on Long Island then most any other agent.
Something isn’t making sense to me, this was very common on Long Island.

Our daughter is actually in the process of purchasing a home right now, which has its second layer roofing in another state

Just for the record, I am not saying those people are wrong. It’s entirely possible a bank can turn down a mortgage based on condition of a house however, a blanket statement that mortgage companies won’t write a mortgage on a house with a second roof. I don’t think it’s correct. It could be the possibility of the condition of the roof regardless of layers as the primary cause.
Very interesting

 

[Lubener]

Insurance companies make the biggest stink about roof age, never heard of a bank denying a loan because the roof was old or had two layers.

 

[JohnnyG]

Two layer roof won't pass the permit requirements here. Further, a tear off allows you to replace damaged underlayment, which is not always visible on an existing roof. Third, the new materials available for roofing, such as rubber membrane, heavy vinyl underlayment (no longer "tar paper") is not compatible with a shingle over.
Of course we are required to have 150 mph resistant roofing, not older than 15 years!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Waiting on a quote from roofer who visited my house this morning (see previous thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/comp-shingle-for-old-home.392364/page-2#post-7157937). He will give me two quotes, one for simply repairing the damage I told him about, and a second for the entire roof (the comp shingle currently on it is 25 years old). The other quote will be for recovering the roof, which involves leaving the current shingle on, and then simply laying down new shingle over that.

Now I really wouldn't know--which is why I'm posting here--but I wanted to get other folks opinions of this. Is this kind of like putting a new paint job on a car, without taking the old paint off--as if, the new paint will peel off when the old paint does, too? Would this give me less longevity on the new shingle, than if I had them tear off the old stuff and then put down the new roof?

re-roof is okay assuming no water damage to the plywood base and the roof can handle the added weight.

 

[demarpaint]

That’s interesting. I never heard a bank denying a buyer a house based on its condition although this was 20 years ago, I represented more house sales,on Long Island then most any other agent.
Something isn’t making sense to me, this was very common on Long Island.

Our daughter is actually in the process of purchasing a home right now, which has its second layer roofing in another state

Just for the record, I am not saying those people are wrong. It’s entirely possible a bank can turn down a mortgage based on condition of a house however, a blanket statement that mortgage companies won’t write a mortgage on a house with a second roof. I don’t think it’s correct. It could be the possibility of the condition of the roof regardless of layers as the primary cause.
Very interesting

I worded it so that it wouldn't be a blanket statement, by saying this: "This was for L.I. NY, it might vary depending on where you live." Figuring someone might call me out. Maybe I should have added it might not matter where you live. So consider that now since you called me out.

I also was looking into getting HO insurance in Florida late last year, as part of my ongoing relocation homework. At the time I was told by a broker who wrote policies for a few insurance companies that if the roof was 5 years old or more the roof had to be replaced to get a policy. IIRC State Farm was 4 years, they might be cracking down on that but insurance companies and banks can make things difficult for buyers and sellers in a lot of areas.

FTR No harm no foul for calling me out. To anyone planning a move make sure you check everything including the cost of insuring the house and cars in the area you plan on moving to. Planning a roof project it might pay to check out what I wrote if you'll be selling the house in the near future.

 

[AZjeff]

If cost is an issue fix the bad spots now, save up a bit more money over the next couple of years and do it right with a complete replacement. Covering old shingles is always seen as the cheap way not the best. If you ever sell it's not a positive selling point.

 

[Kruse]

I had my roof redone about nine months ago. I had the asphalt shingles taken off and I replaced the asphalt with metal shingles. (The steel shingle brand was Edco. You can Google the brand if you wish) Anyway, there was some damage underneath an area of shingles that probably would not have been caught if the area was just covered up with another layer.

 

[JohnnyG]

I worded it so that it wouldn't be a blanket statement, by saying this: "This was for L.I. NY, it might vary depending on where you live." Figuring someone might call me out. Maybe I should have added it might not matter where you live. So consider that now since you called me out.

I also was looking into getting HO insurance in Florida late last year, as part of my ongoing relocation homework. At the time I was told by a broker who wrote policies for a few insurance companies that if the roof was 5 years old or more the roof had to be replaced to get a policy. IIRC State Farm was 4 years, they might be cracking down on that but insurance companies and banks can make things difficult for buyers and sellers in a lot of areas.

FTR No harm no foul for calling me out. To anyone planning a move make sure you check everything including the cost of insuring the house and cars in the area you plan on moving to. Planning a roof project it might pay to check out what I wrote if you'll be selling the house in the near future.

I guess it pays to shop homeowners insurance companies. Like I posted above, mine was REQUIRED at 15 years, by my insurance co. which is early, but WAY more resonable than State Farm @ 4yr! That's ridiculous. Maybe that's the requirement for the initial bank loan we spoke about.

Insurance companies are really in a big mess down here. I'm lucky to have found one that is fair and honest. I suppose if I ever have a claim, that will change pretty quickly.
Another thing that hurts homeowners here, even though most don't realize it, is the "Hail damage" scam. Almost any roofing contractor will confirm hail damage to get the work when things are slow. Of course that creates a claim, which makes rates go up for everyone.

 

[paulri]

If there is water damage to the plywood base, then re-roofing wouldn't be good? I mean, wouldn't it be better to provide an extra layer of protection for those boards? Or would the rot spread?

re-roof is okay assuming no water damage to the plywood base and the roof can handle the added weight.

 

[demarpaint]

I guess it pays to shop homeowners insurance companies. Like I posted above, mine was REQUIRED at 15 years, by my insurance co. which is early, but WAY more resonable than State Farm @ 4yr! That's ridiculous. Maybe that's the requirement for the initial bank loan we spoke about.

Insurance companies are really in a big mess down here. I'm lucky to have found one that is fair and honest. I suppose if I ever have a claim, that will change pretty quickly.
Another thing that hurts homeowners here, even though most don't realize it, is the "Hail damage" scam. Almost any roofing contractor will confirm hail damage to get the work when things are slow. Of course that creates a claim, which makes rates go up for everyone.

It pays big time to shop insurance companies, especially now. Scammers and people driving with no coverage or under insured are killing us! In the case I mentioned it was made clear the house we used in Florida for insurance pricing was not going to be financed, it made no difference at that time. I would imagine financing would still make things a bit more difficult. Around here a lot of sellers used to stay clear of FHA buyers using FHA loans, they can make it difficult for a seller with their requirements. When the time comes to sell my house I'll be well versed again. Last house I sold I told the broker no FHA loans, in other words once we agreed on a price if the lender sent someone in that wanted something replaced in order to get a loan I'd kill the deal if they wanted me to pay or do the work. The house is sold as it, I make sure the broker tells the people he brings into the house. It worked more than once for me over the years. Once again I have to say things might have changed, to avoid me getting called out.

IIRC FHA at one time required only one layer of shingles on a roof around here. That could still be the case.

 

[demarpaint]

If there is water damage to the plywood base, then re-roofing wouldn't be good? I mean, wouldn't it be better to provide an extra layer of protection for those boards? Or would the rot spread?

Stripping the old roof is the best way to go, it's also more costly. Some roofers build into their price the cost of replacing X amount of sheathing if it's bad in places. X being a small number spelled out in the contract. If they find rot expect to pay more, usually a lot more. They call it unforeseeable circumstances or something along that order. Covering rot with another layer of shingle is like putting a suit on pig.

 

[Chris142]

My roof had 4 layers of shingles and still leaked in the slightest drizzle. We finally had the whole thing torn off, replaced any rotten wood, new paper, shingles etc..

Total cost was just under $60k Including permits,disposal etc.

 

[Nessism1]

Before being replaced, my roof had three layers on the house, and four on the garage. Thankfully, only $25k to replace. 15% wood replacement was built into the contract, and that held true.

 

[JHZR2]

I worded it so that it wouldn't be a blanket statement, by saying this: "This was for L.I. NY, it might vary depending on where you live." Figuring someone might call me out. Maybe I should have added it might not matter where you live. So consider that now since you called me out.

I also was looking into getting HO insurance in Florida late last year, as part of my ongoing relocation homework. At the time I was told by a broker who wrote policies for a few insurance companies that if the roof was 5 years old or more the roof had to be replaced to get a policy. IIRC State Farm was 4 years, they might be cracking down on that but insurance companies and banks can make things difficult for buyers and sellers in a lot of areas.

FTR No harm no foul for calling me out. To anyone planning a move make sure you check everything including the cost of insuring the house and cars in the area you plan on moving to. Planning a roof project it might pay to check out what I wrote if you'll be selling the house in the near future.

That’s insane. I’d bet the 5 year mandate is also if you jump companies. What a thieving racket!

 

[demarpaint]

That’s insane. I’d bet the 5 year mandate is also if you jump companies. What a thieving racket!

Insane for sure. Good point about the 5 year mandate that was something I didn't explore. The prices for houses in Florida are falling as a result, and the HOA are rising to cover the costs of the rising insurance on the buildings, clubhouses, pools etc. There's a lot of insurance fraud and something should be done to crack down on it.

OT- I almost fell over when I got my auto renewal, nothing changed, no tickets no accidents 26% hike. I shopped around and feel better about the 26% hike, almost as if I got a deal. LOL I'll probably fall over again in September when it's time to pay the Home Owner's Insurance. Rant over!

 

[JHZR2]

Insane for sure. Good point about the 5 year mandate that was something I didn't explore. The prices for houses in Florida are falling as a result, and the HOA are rising to cover the costs of the rising insurance on the buildings, clubhouses, pools etc. There's a lot of insurance fraud and something should be done to crack down on it.

OT- I almost fell over when I got my auto renewal, nothing changed, no tickets no accidents 26% hike. I shopped around and feel better about the 26% hike, almost as if I got a deal. LOL I'll probably fall over again in September when it's time to pay the Home Owner's Insurance. Rant over!

I think the insurers are in cahoots with each other to the point that there isn’t real competition. What happened in your risk pool to justify such a rise? I’d suspect nothing. CA fires, NC floods. I get it that across the country risk is spread broadly, but come on.

 

[demarpaint]

I think the insurers are in cahoots with each other to the point that there isn’t real competition. What happened in your risk pool to justify such a rise? I’d suspect nothing. CA fires, NC floods. I get it that across the country risk is spread broadly, but come on.

You're right. What happened in my risk pool to justify the increase? Nothing, I like the rest of the country when they get their increase will be paying for CA, NC, FL, and anywhere else there's a problem. They spread their losses. Here's a kicker, when I was insurance shopping in FL and discovered not only was HO higher than L.I. auto was higher too, a lot. I asked the agent why and he said ~ 40% of the drivers on the road in Florida are either under insured or have no insurance. Guess who pays for them............