Greetings BITOG gurus! This is my first post though I've been reading this site for several years. I finally decided I needed to join so I can ask a few questions that are weighing on my mind. I hope I can be of assistance to others in the future with whatever knowledge and experience I can offer. Thanks in advance for looking at my post.
Here's the preamble: rebuilt Cummins ISB 5.9 diesel, 2006 Dodge Ram Mega Cab 4x4. It needed a rebuild due to fractured rings and scored cylinders. I bought it used 6 years ago with 160,000 km on it. I’ve got other vehicles so I only put on about 10,000 km a year, as it’s mostly a summer travel trailer towing truck (how’s that for alliteration). The engine has new valves, camshaft, turbo, reman’d injectors, and the diesel shop said they used genuine Cummins parts. I thought I bought a good used truck but I now realize it wasn't good used, it was good and used……..
I ran Amsoil AME 15W-40 with an EAO80 (Donaldson) filter with annual OCI’s until the rebuild. The diesel shop installed Rotella T 15W-40. Here we get +30°C summers and -30°C winters, sometimes even lower. I use the engine block heater when it gets below freezing and I do use the truck in the winter. It's a long term keeper so I want to treat the new engine right.
So, here are my questions:
1. What oil brand should I be using till break in?
I plan on conventional oil until break in is complete and then switch to something synthetic, probably Amsoil AME again though I’m open to other ideas. I’ve got Shell Rotella, Chevron Ursa, Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac, Fleet-Pro (Pinnacle Oil), Castrol GTX and Valvoline All-Fleet conventional HDEO’s easily available.
2. What oil viscosity?
Rotella’s specs show a pour point of only -30°C in both 15W-40 and 10W-30 which I find odd. Cummins says 15W-40 is OK down to -15°C, then use 10W-30. Delo and other have a lower pour point than Rotella, but does that mean they also have more friction modifiers? Aren’t less friction modifiers better until the engine is broken in?
I ran the truck for a few days of -25°C in January, and it started OK plugged in but I got scared when I realized that was only 5° above the pour point. I’m thinking I’ll use 10W-30 for the winter and 15W-40 for summer as there’s not that many viscosities available in conventional HDEO that I’m aware of.
3. What OCI?
Dodge says 6 months or 7500 miles (12,000 km). I guess 15w-40 in the spring and 10W-30 in the fall would make sense.
However, I’ve driven 4800 km (3000 miles) since the rebuild 6 months ago and I’ve needed to add 2 qts. Until the rings seat fully there’ll be more oil consumption, blowby, soot and fuel dilution. With my low annual usage should I just stick to a 6 month OCI, or are more frequent changes a good thing until broken in? If so, how often?
4. How do I know it’s broken in?
Should I follow oil consumption, and when it stabilizes I’m broken in? Would following UOA help, ie a drop in wear metals? I’d like to have some data to decide, not simply a WAG.
Sorry gents for the long first post, but I thought I should give you as much information as I can so you can give me your best answers. So fire away, I’m looking forward to getting further educated!
Rebuilt Dodge Cummins 5.9, what oil, OCI?
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Try Mag1 All Fleet Fully Synthetic 5W-40. It's rated CJ-4 for diesels and SJ SL SM for gas so it's suitable for a wide range of gassers or diesels you may have.
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So, here are my questions:
1. What oil brand should I be using till break in?
I plan on conventional oil until break in is complete and then switch to something synthetic, probably Amsoil AME again though I’m open to other ideas. I’ve got Shell Rotella, Chevron Ursa, Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac, Fleet-Pro (Pinnacle Oil), Castrol GTX and Valvoline All-Fleet conventional HDEO’s easily available.
Any oil meeting CI4 or CJ4 specs will work perfect, Brand choice is up to you.
2. What oil viscosity?
Rotella’s specs show a pour point of only -30°C in both 15W-40 and 10W-30 which I find odd. Cummins says 15W-40 is OK down to -15°C, then use 10W-30. Delo and other have a lower pour point than Rotella, but does that mean they also have more friction modifiers? Aren’t less friction modifiers better until the engine is broken in?
Those temps are so bad, there are 10's of thousands of trucks running 15w40 and not plugged in. That being said all the big companies Cummins. Detroit ETC have switched to 10w30 factory fill now for year round use. Choice is still yours.
I ran the truck for a few days of -25°C in January, and it started OK plugged in but I got scared when I realized that was only 5° above the pour point. I’m thinking I’ll use 10W-30 for the winter and 15W-40 for summer as there’s not that many viscosities available in conventional HDEO that I’m aware of.
3. What OCI?
Dodge says 6 months or 7500 miles (12,000 km). I guess 15w-40 in the spring and 10W-30 in the fall would make sense.
However, I’ve driven 4800 km (3000 miles) since the rebuild 6 months ago and I’ve needed to add 2 qts. Until the rings seat fully there’ll be more oil consumption, blowby, soot and fuel dilution. With my low annual usage should I just stick to a 6 month OCI, or are more frequent changes a good thing until broken in? If so, how often?
What you stated is correct, however through reading this forum, there are lots of UAO's that say you could extend that out a lot. Just run the cheap oil for a few thousand drain it out and refill with new filter to get break in and wear metals out, Then use UAO to decide your OCI.
4. How do I know it’s broken in?
Should I follow oil consumption, and when it stabilizes I’m broken in? Would following UOA help, ie a drop in wear metals? I’d like to have some data to decide, not simply a WAG.
You most likely wont know when, Lots of statements say engine isn't broken in till it has 50000 miles on it. Don't know if that's true or not but... You seem to have a handle on this already. Don't over think it.
Best to you.
I'm a semi mechanic at UPS. I also work on the yard shifter trucks that move semi trailers at UPS complexes. Those trucks use an industrial version of the Cummins 5.9L or 6.7L depending on the year. Maintenance is done by hours. The engines typical go 25K hours before needing a rebuild using Delo 15W40.
IMO you can't buy a bad 15w40(as long as ever clear does not start making it). Pick your favorite color of bottle and use it. Even the super tech is a great oil at a bargain price
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If I were you, I would use the 15W/40 until run in is complete. Or, until the weather turns cold, if you don't get it run in before winter.
How do you know when that is? When oil consumption "Stabilizes". Meaning that oil usage should taper off, and eventually stays at a relatively steady rate. The bad news is......Consumption is probably as good as it is going to get.
I would definitely switch to synthetic, and stay with it, at that point. Either Rotella T6 or Delo synthetic 5w/40. Both of those are better than they need to be, so even if AmSoil is better in some way, the extra money would be wasted.
There are hundreds of thousands of commercial diesels that run 15w40 year round crossing the entire U.S. every day of the year. Not my first choice, but there are not thousands of grenaded engines lying around and it is not untypical for them to go 500,000+ miles without any major repair. I have gotten pretty sold on 10w30 syn blends now. Very cost effective and more than adequate for many diesels. Mine is a 2000 factory remanned 12.7L Detroit with 528K miles on it after the reman, yanking around up to 80,000 lb of truck getting 22.5K mile oil changes (50% longer than OEM recommended drain intervals). UOA's are as good as any from using a 15w40 syn blend. Only uses about 2 qts between oil changes. OEM's are factory filling with 10w30 now. This would be more than ample to cover your temp ranges without shelling out considerable money. Delvac Elite syn blend, offered in both 10w30 and 15w40 varieties, seems to be a very good oil from results I have seen from others. I use Schaeffer 711 10w30 syn blend in mine. Finish out some time on the fill they gave you and then switch to something else at next change or Fall weather.
I'm a personal fan of Delvac 1 5W40 in my '06, and when combined with a Fleetguard Stratapore Venturi filter, it'll be good for 3 years (which will likely be less than 10K total). In Canada, you can also get the Delvac Elite 222 0W30, which would be good if it gets REALLY cold. I would stick with the 15W40 for this summer for break in, then switch to synthetic (or even a 10W30 syn blend) for winter.
What's your closest distributor? Given the capacity of a Cummins, a distributor is a pretty wise bet. As you can see from my signature, I use an HDEO in my G37, and I don't pay much for it.
Don't worry so much about the pour point. Pay attention to the number before the w. As was already mentioned there are 0w-30 HDEOs here, and 5w-30 HDEOs have returned as well, not to mention that there are 5w-40 examples that have been around for a while. My dad simply used 10w-30 on his diesel pickups in the winter in this province, and in the winter in farm equipment as needed, too.
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I'm a semi mechanic at UPS. I also work on the yard shifter trucks that move semi trailers at UPS complexes. Those trucks use an industrial version of the Cummins 5.9L or 6.7L depending on the year. Maintenance is done by hours. The engines typical go 25K hours before needing a rebuild using Delo 15W40.
Many thanks gents for your advice, much appreciated.
I've been using synthetic oil in all my vehicles for a long time, kind of settled on Amsoil as I like being able to order it in my jammies at midnight and it arrives within the week, and I like less frequent oil changes. I'm impressed though with the longevity and good UOA's I've been seeing with conventional oil, especially HDEO. Everything I've read says that the Cummins ISB design life is 350,000 miles on conventional oil with standard oil filters. It still bothers me that my engine broke at such low mileage, as I kind of put up with a mediocre suspension with the 3rd gen Ram to get what I thought was an excellent engine. Anyway I hope it's an excellent engine now. I'm getting the impression that there's less difference between conventional and synthetic oil nowadays than before. Are ad packs more important than base stocks? It seems the answer is yes.
TiredTrucker: 2 quarts of oil consumption in 22,000 miles? Amazing! And I've used 2 quarts in 3000 miles? I hope this isn't as good as it gets, although I've read that Cummins considers up to 1 qt in 700 miles acceptable consumption. I've never considered year round use of 10W30, but if you have such outstanding oil consumption plus UOA using it in a reman'd 2000 spec engine it should be just fine for my 06.
Yes, I know Dodge recommends 5W40 at less than 0°F, but each 5W40 I've seen is synthetic and I want to use dino oil until break in is complete.
yvon_la: merci pour la video, c'est la interessant. Yet I wonder: if Cummins allows an extra 8000 km using VPB but UOA show many dino oils can go past the factory OCI anyway, is there anything actually different in VPB?
Garak: many thanks. Good to know about your Dad's experience with 10W30. I do have a couple of distributors in my region. One has a house brand of oil I've never heard of, and the other has the usual HDEO brands. Interestingly enough, a local Walmart has Rotella T 15W40 at $45 per 9.5L jug which is a pretty good price compared to CT, other auto parts places, or a local Flying J truck stop. One distributor sells Fleet Pro made by Pinnacle Oil. Any opinions on it, as I've never heard of it before? I tried Amsoil's HDD 5W30 HDEO in my old 98.5 24V Dodge Ram but it noticeably increased oil consumption so I went back to AME.
I plan on changing oil this week once the weather warms up. I want to check out a local oil distributor and talk to them. I'll let you guys know when I've decided.
Well, broken engines happen, even when the engine has a stellar reputation and maintenance regimes are followed meticulously. That certainly doesn't put money back in your pocket or take away any inconvenience, but at least you can take solace in the fact you didn't make a bad purchase or caused some failure yourself. That's another thing I learned from my dad. While we shouldn't abuse equipment, stuff can and will break, and there's not a darned thing you can do about it.
You will find Pinnacle stuff mainly at shops in Canada, and I wouldn't have any concerns using it, particularly if their pricing is attractive. They also make PCMO products geared for fleet and shop use. It's a little harder to find right here, as the shop that used to supply it locally closed up. That was unfortunate, since they had good prices on everything, and not just Pinnacle. Another one of my suppliers can get it, should I so desire. Check your local Shell, Petro-Canada, Imperial Oil, and Co-op distributors, too. While the Walmart price on the 9.5L jug isn't terrible, you will do better at Shell or Imperial Oil. For comparison's sake, I'm not spending much more per litre on Delvac 1 ESP, which is a synthetic. I'm sure the Shell distributor can get you good Rotella pricing, too. You can often get good Chevron pricing at trucking outfits. In this province, Husky handles Chevron distributions, but places like Maxim and whatnot have good prices at the retail level.
If it were me and I were shopping Walmart and wanted a lube with all the builders approvals, I'd grab a pail or two of Rotella 15w-40 and do at least a couple OCIs with that, at least while breaking in, and then revisit the choice after, if one is concerned about winter starts. Of course, there's nothing wrong with getting the product from the Shell distributor, and they do have a 10w-30 option, as well.
So with all the good information I received here I finally fixed my decision paralysis. I went to a local independent distributor and bought two 5L jugs of Rotella T 15W-40 and a case of 12 qts. Their price for an 18.9L (5 gallon) pail was $80, same as Walmart or Canadian Tire. The 12 qt case cost $55 which is much cheaper than regular retail quart prices. I bought the case of quarts for convenience as I assume I'll be adding oil for a while more, and I know that when the oil level hits "ADD" on the dipstick it needs 2 quarts.
After searching around some more I found a specific Shell Canada distributor in my area so I'll check out their prices too. The independent distributor has good sale prices on Chevron products, Delo 400 LE 15W-40 is $69 a pail right now, but I needed to make a decision and an extra $20 for the convenience of quarts was OK right now.
I changed the oil yesterday at 4999.5 km (3124 miles) with a Fleetguard Stratapore LF1605 filter. I should have driven up and down my driveway a bit more. 
I'm going to keep careful track of my oil consumption and see what happens.
Thanks again gents for all your very helpful information! I'll post back when I get some more km on this oil change. Once it's broken in I'm thinking a nice pail of Delo LE synthetic 5W-40 might be just the ticket!
I'm going to keep careful track of my oil consumption and see what happens.
Thanks again gents for all your very helpful information! I'll post back when I get some more km on this oil change. Once it's broken in I'm thinking a nice pail of Delo LE synthetic 5W-40 might be just the ticket!
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Those prices are acceptable, but not great, so you should be happy with your purchase. The Shell distributor might be able to get you a better deal than that. I do like the idea of having extra quarts around for top up as needed.
I used to run Rotella 15w-40 dino in my 7.3 Powerstroke, just recently switched to Rotella T6 synthetic 5w-40 and noticed the difference almost immediately. It starts up much easier and idles quieter with less clatter. Since you've got a brand new engine why not give it the best? I'd run conventional for the first couple oil changes before switching to synthetic. My only regret is not doing it sooner, my truck loves it and is thanking me for it every cold morning. Pumping cold 15w-40 is hard work, it now pumps the 5w-40 effortlessly. Much easier on the engine.
I plan to run 9k intervals on this oil changing the oil filter every 3k and doing a UOA at 6k to make sure the oil's still holding up okay. Any name brand conventional oil can be ran out to 5k intervals easily if that's the route you choose. If you don't plan on extended OCI's, then synthetic really isn't worth the money. It's the only way your wallet will benefit from it anyway.
That's exactly what I plan on doing, run conventional oil til break in then switch to some type of synthetic for longer OCI's. T6 would be great, though I'm curious to try Delo LE 5W-40. I might even go back to Amsoil AME 15W-40 which is a CI-4+ spec, but my 5.9 is a 2006 so that would work just fine.
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