Realtor's commission...?
- Thread starter mrsilv04
- Start date
- Status
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
your response was...?
Equally rude.
The attitude that "no one should make any money off me" is childish and ignorant. And I mean ignorant of the way business works.
The way a business works is that consumers can choose to NOT pay for services that are deemed to be of little value. That is the reality of the realtor's value to the OP and obviously many others on here. There has been no good indication of what value the realtor has brought to the table in this situation.
your response was...?
Equally rude.
The attitude that "no one should make any money off me" is childish and ignorant. And I mean ignorant of the way business works.
The way a business works is that consumers can choose to NOT pay for services that are deemed to be of little value. That is the reality of the realtor's value to the OP and obviously many others on here. There has been no good indication of what value the realtor has brought to the table in this situation.
^^^^ Exactly - and why OP shouldn't be obligated to pay anything to a Realtor.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
your response was...?
Equally rude.
The attitude that "no one should make any money off me" is childish and ignorant. And I mean ignorant of the way business works.
Salesmen = necessary evil.
Peeved, We work our butts off in manufacturing making complex "stuff" to barely squeeze a 15% margin, then the sales guys get 50% comish whilst drinking and eating lavish meals and travelling and b-s ing with prospects.
In our economy this apparent inequity is most grotesque.
your response was...?
Equally rude.
The attitude that "no one should make any money off me" is childish and ignorant. And I mean ignorant of the way business works.
Salesmen = necessary evil.
Peeved, We work our butts off in manufacturing making complex "stuff" to barely squeeze a 15% margin, then the sales guys get 50% comish whilst drinking and eating lavish meals and travelling and b-s ing with prospects.
In our economy this apparent inequity is most grotesque.
Couple of things for you armchair experts-
Firstly, not all Real Estate Agents are Realtors. It's not cheap being a Realtor.
Secondly, you are acting like the agent in this case is "walking away" with $1300 for "doing nothing". How much of that $1300 do you think he pockets? Take a guess.
Thirdly, do you have any idea what the median income is for Real Estate Agents?
Fourthly, do you have any idea of the liability he is exposed to? His expenses?
Do you know the percentage of FSBO who end up listing after trying it themselves? Why do they do that? It's an easy deal to sell on your own, right?
'
Heres a scenario for you. Automotive related, but it parallels. Lets say 2 neighbors had identical cars. 2 year old Buicks.
Neighbor #1 takes his to the local Buick dealer, who has a good reputation, and puts it on consignment for 10%. The dealer preps it, has the mechanics inspect it, advertises it and has hundreds of buyers looking at it. He helps with the financing, does a car fax, is even willing to take a trade.The dealer has built a reputation and spent a lot of money building traffic to his
facility.
Neighbor 2 puts it on his lawn and runs a free ad in the local penny saver. Which will sell quicker? Which will get the owner the higher amount in his pocket?
I had a buyer once who ran me ragged. I showed her dozens of homes. No matter what the price, she always said it was $10,000 too much, but would never make an offer. "$90,000? It's only worth $80,000." This went on and on for 2 weeks. Finally, she saw a house she liked. I told her it was $110,000. "$110,000, it's only worth $100,000". "Oh wait, I read it wrong, it is $100,000 after all". Silence.
She called me 2 weeks later gloating. She found the perfect house for $90,000 from a for sale by owner. In Canton. 30 miles away from where she wanted to be. I congratulated her, and explained the prices are usually cheaper in Canton...because of the paper mill. She hung up.
The agent in the OP's case assumes the buyer found the property on their own and decided to "cut in " the agent. perhaps. or perhaps he had been working with the buyer for months, showing him multiple properties, and the buyer happened across this one and wanted to continue using the agent.
So don't use the agent. Save 3%. Go to wal mart and get a for sale by owner sign. See how that works out for you. Of course, if you pay the 3% now you will close right away and pay a 15% cap gains tax. Try it on your own and if you are lucky enough to sell it next year, what will the cap gains tax be?
And for all you who think being a Realtor is an easy, high paying job, get your license and make the big money. There's room for more agents, they are dropping like flies.
Firstly, not all Real Estate Agents are Realtors. It's not cheap being a Realtor.
Secondly, you are acting like the agent in this case is "walking away" with $1300 for "doing nothing". How much of that $1300 do you think he pockets? Take a guess.
Thirdly, do you have any idea what the median income is for Real Estate Agents?
Fourthly, do you have any idea of the liability he is exposed to? His expenses?
Do you know the percentage of FSBO who end up listing after trying it themselves? Why do they do that? It's an easy deal to sell on your own, right?
'
Heres a scenario for you. Automotive related, but it parallels. Lets say 2 neighbors had identical cars. 2 year old Buicks.
Neighbor #1 takes his to the local Buick dealer, who has a good reputation, and puts it on consignment for 10%. The dealer preps it, has the mechanics inspect it, advertises it and has hundreds of buyers looking at it. He helps with the financing, does a car fax, is even willing to take a trade.The dealer has built a reputation and spent a lot of money building traffic to his
facility.
Neighbor 2 puts it on his lawn and runs a free ad in the local penny saver. Which will sell quicker? Which will get the owner the higher amount in his pocket?
I had a buyer once who ran me ragged. I showed her dozens of homes. No matter what the price, she always said it was $10,000 too much, but would never make an offer. "$90,000? It's only worth $80,000." This went on and on for 2 weeks. Finally, she saw a house she liked. I told her it was $110,000. "$110,000, it's only worth $100,000". "Oh wait, I read it wrong, it is $100,000 after all". Silence.
She called me 2 weeks later gloating. She found the perfect house for $90,000 from a for sale by owner. In Canton. 30 miles away from where she wanted to be. I congratulated her, and explained the prices are usually cheaper in Canton...because of the paper mill. She hung up.
The agent in the OP's case assumes the buyer found the property on their own and decided to "cut in " the agent. perhaps. or perhaps he had been working with the buyer for months, showing him multiple properties, and the buyer happened across this one and wanted to continue using the agent.
So don't use the agent. Save 3%. Go to wal mart and get a for sale by owner sign. See how that works out for you. Of course, if you pay the 3% now you will close right away and pay a 15% cap gains tax. Try it on your own and if you are lucky enough to sell it next year, what will the cap gains tax be?
And for all you who think being a Realtor is an easy, high paying job, get your license and make the big money. There's room for more agents, they are dropping like flies.
Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
It's possible the buyer brought in an agent because he/she wasn't comfortable doing a property transaction solo.
Anyway just have them write up the offer, then counter with your price + $1300 for the commission. It's really simple -- if you can't agree on price then move on.
This.. who says you can't charge the buyer 3% to recoup the costs?
It's possible the buyer brought in an agent because he/she wasn't comfortable doing a property transaction solo.
Anyway just have them write up the offer, then counter with your price + $1300 for the commission. It's really simple -- if you can't agree on price then move on.
This.. who says you can't charge the buyer 3% to recoup the costs?
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Sounds like there are some realtors joining in on the discussion. I'm sure there are some wonderful realtors in the world who work very hard for their clients, but this is a case where the realtor did absolutely nothing and wants a 3% fee for doing nothing. The buyer contacted the seller first, then brought the realtor into the mix. If the buyer so desperately wants that realtor, he can pay the fees. To me its a no brainer--if there is no service provided, what is the fee for?
You're making the very incorrect assumption that the only "work" that goes into the transaction is finding the property. There potentially is much, much more which goes into it, particularly with a land deal--which is one of the reasons why land deals can often pay more than 3% to the selling agent, because they can be a royal PITA.
I can't speak to the particulars of this specific transaction, but I can tell you that I've spent probably 30-40 hours of work on a piece of property which a client of mine "found", most of it invested in several trips and meetings with various Dept. of Planning personnel to ensure the property could actually be used for the intended purpose.
It's ridiculous to expect someone to buy a piece of property without professional representation unless the person is a developer (and even most developers use real estate agents who specialize in the field). So you're paying both for someone's expertise as well as "work". The comment earlier in the thread to the effect of "this should be easy, there's not even a house to deal with" shows a pretty big lack of understanding. It's almost always easier to deal with property when there's a structure already present.
So, while I have absolutely no specifics on this particular situation, all I can say is that often there's more to this than meets the eye.
Sounds like there are some realtors joining in on the discussion. I'm sure there are some wonderful realtors in the world who work very hard for their clients, but this is a case where the realtor did absolutely nothing and wants a 3% fee for doing nothing. The buyer contacted the seller first, then brought the realtor into the mix. If the buyer so desperately wants that realtor, he can pay the fees. To me its a no brainer--if there is no service provided, what is the fee for?
You're making the very incorrect assumption that the only "work" that goes into the transaction is finding the property. There potentially is much, much more which goes into it, particularly with a land deal--which is one of the reasons why land deals can often pay more than 3% to the selling agent, because they can be a royal PITA.
I can't speak to the particulars of this specific transaction, but I can tell you that I've spent probably 30-40 hours of work on a piece of property which a client of mine "found", most of it invested in several trips and meetings with various Dept. of Planning personnel to ensure the property could actually be used for the intended purpose.
It's ridiculous to expect someone to buy a piece of property without professional representation unless the person is a developer (and even most developers use real estate agents who specialize in the field). So you're paying both for someone's expertise as well as "work". The comment earlier in the thread to the effect of "this should be easy, there's not even a house to deal with" shows a pretty big lack of understanding. It's almost always easier to deal with property when there's a structure already present.
So, while I have absolutely no specifics on this particular situation, all I can say is that often there's more to this than meets the eye.
I paid my real estate lawyer alot less than $1300. Yeah, I had to do some legwork - OMG, WORK! it should be censored - but I found the house I wanted and the deal was done in 3 days. Then the seller's realtor had to drag it out for 5 weeks. I guess she felt she needed to prove her existence?
What a waste.
What a waste.
Some of you are losing sight of what the actual issue is. The big question is WHO should pay the agent's fee. The owner chose to sell on his own. He has decided that he can handle the transaction without the help of a realtor. He has priced the land accordingly. If he's wrong, he'll have headaches. If he's right, he'll save some money.
Now an interested buyer shows up with an agent and expects the seller to pay the fee out of his end. Does this sound fair? Not to me. When someone buys a used car at a dealer he is free to hire an independent mechanic to inspect the car. Does he hand the bill to the dealer? No.
Also, why does it matter if the realtor provides a service or not? The OP feels that he does not need this service. Why should he pay someone else to do something he can do for himself? I perform just about all maintenance and repairs to my vehicles myself. This does not mean that I think all mechanics are worthless crooks. I simply don't need their services and refuse to pay for them. I spend my money as I choose. Just because someone chooses a profession doesn't mean that I am compelled to pay them for their services if I don't require them.
Now an interested buyer shows up with an agent and expects the seller to pay the fee out of his end. Does this sound fair? Not to me. When someone buys a used car at a dealer he is free to hire an independent mechanic to inspect the car. Does he hand the bill to the dealer? No.
Also, why does it matter if the realtor provides a service or not? The OP feels that he does not need this service. Why should he pay someone else to do something he can do for himself? I perform just about all maintenance and repairs to my vehicles myself. This does not mean that I think all mechanics are worthless crooks. I simply don't need their services and refuse to pay for them. I spend my money as I choose. Just because someone chooses a profession doesn't mean that I am compelled to pay them for their services if I don't require them.
Kestas
Staff member
Who pays the realty agent's fee is determined by custom. Around here it's the seller who pays the fees, and the agent represents the seller.
Studebaker -
Valid points, for sure.
But it would also apply to a Mafia Goodfella extortionist who puts the lean on your business for a percentage each month!
You get great protection! Where else can you go?
There are all sorts of downsides and unnecessary extras . It is way out of line. We are simply stuck with the laws and systems that propagate them at OUR expense.
Extraordinary fees for several hours actual work.
Valid points, for sure.
But it would also apply to a Mafia Goodfella extortionist who puts the lean on your business for a percentage each month!
You get great protection! Where else can you go?
There are all sorts of downsides and unnecessary extras . It is way out of line. We are simply stuck with the laws and systems that propagate them at OUR expense.
Extraordinary fees for several hours actual work.
Usually the seller pays the agent's commission, however if it is near the end of negotiation and his commission is getting in the way, he would do the job of negotiating with the buyer / seller or reduce the charged commission to seal the deal.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: JOD
I can't speak to the particulars of this specific transaction, but I can tell you that I've spent probably 30-40 hours of work on a piece of property which a client of mine "found", most of it invested in several trips and meetings with various Dept. of Planning personnel to ensure the property could actually be used for the intended purpose.
So you actually did work. A lot of the griping is related to typical RE commissions... it is 3% each side for all transactions, incluidng the easy ones.
You may have earned your pay there, but you were also working for the buyer apparently... All the more reason for the buyer to pay you.
I can't speak to the particulars of this specific transaction, but I can tell you that I've spent probably 30-40 hours of work on a piece of property which a client of mine "found", most of it invested in several trips and meetings with various Dept. of Planning personnel to ensure the property could actually be used for the intended purpose.
So you actually did work. A lot of the griping is related to typical RE commissions... it is 3% each side for all transactions, incluidng the easy ones.
You may have earned your pay there, but you were also working for the buyer apparently... All the more reason for the buyer to pay you.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
Couple of things for you armchair experts-
Firstly, not all Real Estate Agents are Realtors. It's not cheap being a Realtor.
Not my problem. That is the cost of doing business. Don't like it, find another career. High costs do not equal extracting high "standard" fees for what are often simple, routine transactions. In situations where there is a lot of work, and true representation is given, the realtor will truly provide benefit and earn their keep. But this situation shows the OP getting zero value for his dollar, and many who do more routine transactions seem to see the same.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
Do you know the percentage of FSBO who end up listing after trying it themselves? Why do they do that? It's an easy deal to sell on your own, right?
I didnt get the impression that the OP was in a huge rush to sell. You might be because it is tied to a paycheck, the OP does not seem to be.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
Heres a scenario for you. Automotive related, but it parallels. Lets say 2 neighbors had identical cars. 2 year old Buicks.
Neighbor #1 takes his to the local Buick dealer, who has a good reputation, and puts it on consignment for 10%. The dealer preps it, has the mechanics inspect it, advertises it and has hundreds of buyers looking at it. He helps with the financing, does a car fax, is even willing to take a trade.The dealer has built a reputation and spent a lot of money building traffic to his
facility.
Neighbor 2 puts it on his lawn and runs a free ad in the local penny saver. Which will sell quicker? Which will get the owner the higher amount in his pocket?
Wow, sure seems that the dealer is putting in a lot of time and effort for that commission... And the seller is paying for the service, because the dealer is working for the seller, NOT the buyer. The main issue is what value the realtor brings to the table, and in this realtor case, only bringing value to the buyer but costing the seller... It is different, unless the realtor routinely vacuums the floors, paint the walls, plant flowers in the garden and patch the roof on their own dime.
And generally it is understood that private party sales will net better money to the seller.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
So don't use the agent. Save 3%. Go to wal mart and get a for sale by owner sign. See how that works out for you. Of course, if you pay the 3% now you will close right away and pay a 15% cap gains tax. Try it on your own and if you are lucky enough to sell it next year, what will the cap gains tax be?
I love how realtors try to play financial advisors. Maybe some are, but again, is the OP in any rush? In fact, it seems the OP will be lucky to break even in this sale. Far from a huge taxable capital gain on what realtors drummed up to be the best investment of all time just a few years ago.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
And for all you who think being a Realtor is an easy, high paying job, get your license and make the big money. There's room for more agents, they are dropping like flies.
There is a reason why they are dropping like flies... it is because there was no room. Lots of people jumped in looking for easy money making 3-6% for doing nothing... turned out there wasnt enough stuff selling. Classic bubble, nothing else.
Couple of things for you armchair experts-
Firstly, not all Real Estate Agents are Realtors. It's not cheap being a Realtor.
Not my problem. That is the cost of doing business. Don't like it, find another career. High costs do not equal extracting high "standard" fees for what are often simple, routine transactions. In situations where there is a lot of work, and true representation is given, the realtor will truly provide benefit and earn their keep. But this situation shows the OP getting zero value for his dollar, and many who do more routine transactions seem to see the same.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
Do you know the percentage of FSBO who end up listing after trying it themselves? Why do they do that? It's an easy deal to sell on your own, right?
I didnt get the impression that the OP was in a huge rush to sell. You might be because it is tied to a paycheck, the OP does not seem to be.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
Heres a scenario for you. Automotive related, but it parallels. Lets say 2 neighbors had identical cars. 2 year old Buicks.
Neighbor #1 takes his to the local Buick dealer, who has a good reputation, and puts it on consignment for 10%. The dealer preps it, has the mechanics inspect it, advertises it and has hundreds of buyers looking at it. He helps with the financing, does a car fax, is even willing to take a trade.The dealer has built a reputation and spent a lot of money building traffic to his
facility.
Neighbor 2 puts it on his lawn and runs a free ad in the local penny saver. Which will sell quicker? Which will get the owner the higher amount in his pocket?
Wow, sure seems that the dealer is putting in a lot of time and effort for that commission... And the seller is paying for the service, because the dealer is working for the seller, NOT the buyer. The main issue is what value the realtor brings to the table, and in this realtor case, only bringing value to the buyer but costing the seller... It is different, unless the realtor routinely vacuums the floors, paint the walls, plant flowers in the garden and patch the roof on their own dime.
And generally it is understood that private party sales will net better money to the seller.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
So don't use the agent. Save 3%. Go to wal mart and get a for sale by owner sign. See how that works out for you. Of course, if you pay the 3% now you will close right away and pay a 15% cap gains tax. Try it on your own and if you are lucky enough to sell it next year, what will the cap gains tax be?
I love how realtors try to play financial advisors. Maybe some are, but again, is the OP in any rush? In fact, it seems the OP will be lucky to break even in this sale. Far from a huge taxable capital gain on what realtors drummed up to be the best investment of all time just a few years ago.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
And for all you who think being a Realtor is an easy, high paying job, get your license and make the big money. There's room for more agents, they are dropping like flies.
There is a reason why they are dropping like flies... it is because there was no room. Lots of people jumped in looking for easy money making 3-6% for doing nothing... turned out there wasnt enough stuff selling. Classic bubble, nothing else.
+1
If fleas could talk they would tell you how the benefit dogs.
If fleas could talk they would tell you how the benefit dogs.
JHZ, you are talking out your [censored], but with 15,000 posts you seem to have an opinion on everything. Unfortunately, your opinions are not based on fact.
The realtor wants $1300 (3%). Selleris willing to pay 2%. So the seller is kicking away a quick sale for 1% ($433). So wait.
The Realtor has the buyer, he can find him something else.
"And generally it is understood that private party sales will net better money to the seller."
Wrong. Last statistics I saw showed a Realtor sells a property quicker, and for 9% more than a FSBO.
The realtor wants $1300 (3%). Selleris willing to pay 2%. So the seller is kicking away a quick sale for 1% ($433). So wait.
The Realtor has the buyer, he can find him something else.
"And generally it is understood that private party sales will net better money to the seller."
Wrong. Last statistics I saw showed a Realtor sells a property quicker, and for 9% more than a FSBO.
The potential buyer contacted the OP first, THEN decided they "needed" a "Realtor," whatever that is (besides one of the seemingly two billion unemployed "real estate professionals").
At that point, the buyer should pay for the realtor. Had the realtor contacted the seller with a client in mind, then they might have cause to ask the seller to pay the 3% commission.
The OP does not appear to be in a hurry to sell. It's his property. If he chooses not to pay the 3% commission or any other related costs, that's his choice.
Both the buyer and their realtor can find someone else to pay the commission.
The last time I checked, this is not Iran or North Korea. It's the OP's property. He can sell it at the time and price he chooses.
And by the way, there ain't a "realtor" in this town that's selling anything quicker and for 9% more.
At that point, the buyer should pay for the realtor. Had the realtor contacted the seller with a client in mind, then they might have cause to ask the seller to pay the 3% commission.
The OP does not appear to be in a hurry to sell. It's his property. If he chooses not to pay the 3% commission or any other related costs, that's his choice.
Both the buyer and their realtor can find someone else to pay the commission.
The last time I checked, this is not Iran or North Korea. It's the OP's property. He can sell it at the time and price he chooses.
And by the way, there ain't a "realtor" in this town that's selling anything quicker and for 9% more.
Originally Posted By: Studebaker
Unfortunately, your opinions are not based on fact.
The realtor wants $1300 (3%). Selleris willing to pay 2%. So the seller is kicking away a quick sale for 1% ($433). So wait.
The Realtor has the buyer, he can find him something else.
No, I think the buyer should pay for the buyer's realtor. So actually, that means I'm willing to pay 0%.
I don't need a realtor. Therefore, I'm not paying for one that I didn't hire.
I think the realtor took the hint anyway, that I'm less than impressed with the entire situation.
I wish everyone could see the horribly handwritten offer that this realtor presented to me. Misspelled words, stuff scratched out, stuff scribbled off in the margin.... a real professional.
I've learned a lot on this situation. The next time I get a phone call from a realtor, the lot instantly goes up in price by $4,000, and then I'll eventually back off $1000 to make it sound like I'm willing to make a good deal. And at that price, I'll generously "pay" the 3% fee.
So... realtors sell for 9% more, do they? Is that before or after they grab their 6% out of the deal?
Unfortunately, your opinions are not based on fact.
The realtor wants $1300 (3%). Selleris willing to pay 2%. So the seller is kicking away a quick sale for 1% ($433). So wait.
The Realtor has the buyer, he can find him something else.
No, I think the buyer should pay for the buyer's realtor. So actually, that means I'm willing to pay 0%.
I don't need a realtor. Therefore, I'm not paying for one that I didn't hire.
I think the realtor took the hint anyway, that I'm less than impressed with the entire situation.
I wish everyone could see the horribly handwritten offer that this realtor presented to me. Misspelled words, stuff scratched out, stuff scribbled off in the margin.... a real professional.
I've learned a lot on this situation. The next time I get a phone call from a realtor, the lot instantly goes up in price by $4,000, and then I'll eventually back off $1000 to make it sound like I'm willing to make a good deal. And at that price, I'll generously "pay" the 3% fee.
So... realtors sell for 9% more, do they? Is that before or after they grab their 6% out of the deal?
My serious suggestion: If you don't want to hire a listing agent and you're actually serious about selling it, either pay the local multiple listing service to list your property or list it on Redfin yourself and offer to pay a 3% selling agent commission.
Ultimately, you'll get more for the property than you will by putting up a sign in the yard. Most prospective buyers are working with an agent, particularly those interested in vacant land. If there's no selling agent commission, most buyers are never going to see your property.
You can get mad about that and complain about the unfairness of it all, since you're paying for the representation of someone else, but that's how it works (just like when you buy a home or piece of property). And ultimately, not paying that commission is probably going to cost you money. Don't leave $$ on the table just because of some twisted notion of "principle". My $.02.
Ultimately, you'll get more for the property than you will by putting up a sign in the yard. Most prospective buyers are working with an agent, particularly those interested in vacant land. If there's no selling agent commission, most buyers are never going to see your property.
You can get mad about that and complain about the unfairness of it all, since you're paying for the representation of someone else, but that's how it works (just like when you buy a home or piece of property). And ultimately, not paying that commission is probably going to cost you money. Don't leave $$ on the table just because of some twisted notion of "principle". My $.02.
Comparing a real estate agent to a Doctor is stretching it.
But OK...
If we are going to do this, then the Doctor should charge his fees by the WEIGHT of the patient involved.
Can I [+1] my own post?
But OK...
If we are going to do this, then the Doctor should charge his fees by the WEIGHT of the patient involved.
Can I [+1] my own post?
Last edited:
- Status
