Real World differences between Redline/Amsoil 5w30

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RRA_223

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I am due for an oil change in my 20K mile Corvette Z06 (LS7). As many have heard, there is a potential iron valve guide wear issue in these engines - but it tends to be most prominent in highly raced or highly modified cars.

MY LS7 is driven pretty much only on the street as a weekend car - which in the early model Z06's means my oil temps almost NEVER get above 200* F even in the heat of summer (coolant temps are 215-220 consistently, OEM t-stat and radiator). I have no plans to track the car anytime soon; but because of the possibility of valve guide/valve wear, I think a relatively thin oil with high Zinc/Phosphorous levels would be preferred.

I am considering Redline 5w30 and Amsoil 5w30 - but I called Amsoil and none of their 5w30 offerings have more than ~800ppm of either zinc or phosphorous. I haven't gotten hold of Redline yet.

Amsoil is available locally, but as I get a year out of each oil change, I'm okay with paying more to ship in the better choice. I am also considering a 0w20 or similar to improve cold start lubrication, because oil temps never see 200* F this vehicle spends a great deal of time in the "cold" oil temp ranges of 120-160*F. I also am considering the ZDDP "break in" additives, but the Amsoil tech I spoke with specifically stated this is not recommended.

My previous UOA is within normal limits, but I just want "better" protection. Thoughts? Alternatives?
 
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Redline if you feel like shipping it.

Royal Purple makes a 5w-30 that has a lot of ZDDP, as I remember it. That'd work fine I would think. Might even be able to find that locally.

Wouldn't bother with 0w-20. One day it'll be hot and you'll feel like beating on the old girl a little bit - then you'll be thankful you used the 5w-30.
 
No problems running a "diesel" oil in LS_ engines? I'm interested - but the "I read from a script" Amsoil representative was not helpful, nor insightful. What makes the HDD different for "diesel" engines, is it just the additive package?

Are there off-the-shelf diesel oils that would offer similar benefits?

I know brand loyalty can always jade us, so any comparisons to Redline?
 
Originally Posted By: JRed
Redline if you feel like shipping it.

Royal Purple makes a 5w-30 that has a lot of ZDDP, as I remember it. That'd work fine I would think. Might even be able to find that locally.

Wouldn't bother with 0w-20. One day it'll be hot and you'll feel like beating on the old girl a little bit - then you'll be thankful you used the 5w-30.



I was quite specific in mentioning my oil temps: I DO enjoy beating on the car, but without a track (and with the factory coolers) the oil just never gets over 200*. Ever. And yes, ambient temperatures right now are 100+ degrees and humid - I like to drive this car all year round, so in the spring, fall and winter it is even more pronounced; I cover the oil cooler just to keep it above 150*.

It stays so cold, I've contemplated switching out radiators with an internal exchanger just to get the oil hotter (and that's for M1 5w30 which is in it now).

Thanks
 
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Originally Posted By: RRA_223
Amsoil 5w30 - but I called Amsoil and none of their 5w30 offerings have more than ~800ppm of either zinc or phosphorous.


That's not true. As mentioned HDD has more.
 
Originally Posted By: RRA_223
Originally Posted By: JRed
Redline if you feel like shipping it.

Royal Purple makes a 5w-30 that has a lot of ZDDP, as I remember it. That'd work fine I would think. Might even be able to find that locally.

Wouldn't bother with 0w-20. One day it'll be hot and you'll feel like beating on the old girl a little bit - then you'll be thankful you used the 5w-30.



I was quite specific in mentioning my oil temps: I DO enjoy beating on the car, but without a track (and with the factory coolers) the oil just never gets over 200*. Ever. And yes, ambient temperatures right now are 100+ degrees and humid - I like to drive this car all year round, so in the spring, fall and winter it is even more pronounced; I cover the oil cooler just to keep it above 150*.

It stays so cold, I've contemplated switching out radiators with an internal exchanger just to get the oil hotter (and that's for M1 5w30 which is in it now).

Thanks


If the oil remains at low temps, then lower the first number, not the second. No sense risking a viscosity that is too low, even if infrequently, to reap the minuscule benefits (ESPECIALLY when talking about synthetics like Amsoil and Redline) of running a lower operating-temp viscosity.

If you drive it as infrequently and as gently as you're making it seem, then I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you may be over-thinking this whole oil thing...
 
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Since you are already using Mobil 1 5W30, remember there is also a Mobil 1Racing 0W30. You get Zinc/Phosphorous levels both in the 1800ppm range with it, as well as the 0W part for easy winter start ups. ( I can't believe I am mentioning winter driving and Corvettes in the same paragraph - most Ohio Corvettes are hibernating during the winter).

On con side, expect to pay over $16/qt for Mobil 1R 0W30, and expect to find it only at your ExxonMobil distributor.

Full disclosure, I am still using up the original version Mobil 1R 0W30 for the past few years (was discontinued and discounted for $2/qt. I still have over 50 qts of it left). I have been impressed with it in the various engines I put it in.
 
Do the cam/spring pressures warrant higher ZDDP???? I highly doubt it.

Id also not go for a 0w-20. You can pick up a 0w-30 and have similar cold start performance, but you need to determine if it will make any difference at your typical ambient start-up temperatures.
 
The Mobil 1 Racing oils are not worth the cost.

There are a lot of good oils you could use in this engine. Rotella, Amsoil HD 5w30, ACD 10w30, Sig Series... Mobil 1 High Mileage, Mobil 1 Extended Performance, MaxLife Full Syn..

LG really likes Redline.

http://www.lgmotorsports.com/
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Do the cam/spring pressures warrant higher ZDDP???? I highly doubt it.

Id also not go for a 0w-20. You can pick up a 0w-30 and have similar cold start performance, but you need to determine if it will make any difference at your typical ambient start-up temperatures.


Good point.

I'd also give AFE 0w30 a shot. Meets the GM spec too. If you look at their chart, it shows the AFE line having better high temperature ability.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: RRA_223
Originally Posted By: JRed
Redline if you feel like shipping it.

Royal Purple makes a 5w-30 that has a lot of ZDDP, as I remember it. That'd work fine I would think. Might even be able to find that locally.

Wouldn't bother with 0w-20. One day it'll be hot and you'll feel like beating on the old girl a little bit - then you'll be thankful you used the 5w-30.



I was quite specific in mentioning my oil temps: I DO enjoy beating on the car, but without a track (and with the factory coolers) the oil just never gets over 200*. Ever. And yes, ambient temperatures right now are 100+ degrees and humid - I like to drive this car all year round, so in the spring, fall and winter it is even more pronounced; I cover the oil cooler just to keep it above 150*.

It stays so cold, I've contemplated switching out radiators with an internal exchanger just to get the oil hotter (and that's for M1 5w30 which is in it now).

Thanks


If the oil remains at low temps, then lower the first number, not the second. No sense risking a viscosity that is too low, even if infrequently, to reap the minuscule benefits (ESPECIALLY when talking about synthetics like Amsoil and Redline) of running a lower operating-temp viscosity.

If you drive it as infrequently and as gently as you're making it seem, then I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you may be over-thinking this whole oil thing...


I disagree, the engine and oil are running at normal engine temps, just not very hot engine temps. The first number is a cold cranking specification and its measure with the engine cold.

Run the viscosity the manual suggests. The diesel rated oil will be fine as its gas and diesel rated. Many people run 15W40 diesel rated oil in their 5.7L gas GM marine engines. so as long as its gas rated also, not a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Best F100
Since you are already using Mobil 1 5W30, remember there is also a Mobil 1Racing 0W30. You get Zinc/Phosphorous levels both in the 1800ppm range with it, as well as the 0W part for easy winter start ups. ( I can't believe I am mentioning winter driving and Corvettes in the same paragraph - most Ohio Corvettes are hibernating during the winter).


the M1R 0w30 is a good suggestion - I need to check out more 0w30 options.

I cannot speak for others, but generally speaking if there's not salt and/or snow on the ground, I like to drive the car. When I DO drive it, I am usually driving it as aggressively as conditions allow on the street - but there is admittedly copious amounts of interstate and cruising in lower gear due to the traffic conditions in my area (suburbs). It takes time to get to the "fun" roads.
laugh.gif


As a reference, this past winter ambient air temp was 30-40*F. Oil temps never got over 155*F. I covered the external oil cooler, helping somewhat - but it was a feat to get them over 170*F. I have heard of some drivers completely removing the oil cooler altogether in cold conditions just to keep the temps up - this is a common concern for this vehicle when primarily driven on the street.

As previously stated, this summer the ambient air temperature is 95-100*F (or higher) on a daily basis. I have yet to see 200*F on the oil temp gauge (which is PRE-Cooler in the system). It takes 15 minutes of driving in purposefully lower gears to get enough heat to warrant more aggressive driving (most of us try not to go above ~3500 RPM until the oil is 150* or more).

This engine spends a great deal of its life with oil temps at or below 150*F (coolant is 210-220) - and no, I do not consider that beneficial when taking standard oil viscosity into account with a redline of 7000 RPM.

As a note, later year Z06's were changed to utilize a heat exchanger / oil "cooler" internal to the radiator (similar in concept to most other vehicles on the road), and I believe this was specifically to elevate the typical operating oil temps into a more appropriate range (matching that of engine coolant temps over 200*F).
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Do the cam/spring pressures warrant higher ZDDP???? I highly doubt it.

Id also not go for a 0w-20. You can pick up a 0w-30 and have similar cold start performance, but you need to determine if it will make any difference at your typical ambient start-up temperatures.


Ambient start-up conditions are in my post above this one.

Just to be clear: I'm not worried about spring pressures or lifter contact. I'm more concerned about exhaust valve guide wear (iron guides) and abrupt failures that are uncommon - but increasingly seen - in these vehicles. No one REALLY knows, but speculation is that high RPM/high heat and/or reduced lubrication contribute to eventual (catastrophic) valve failure - conditions at the exhaust valve might be similar - or much more extreme - relative to flat tappet lifter stresses when you're running an engine at 7,000 RPM with ~0.585 lift (I'd have to check for OEM specs, but it's decent). Anyway, everyone believes ZDDP to be necessary for those older engines - I suspect it would be cheap insurance in mine.

I'm not concerned with replacing my cats a few years early.

Ergo, my quest to go beyond "what's on the gas cap" (as commented on by other posters) which is admittedly a simplistic reference and aided by M1 licensing payments.... ZDDP is a hot topic, and in my opinion off-the-shelf M1 5w30 is not the best choice for my application - which is why I'm posting here. I sincerely doubt anyone here would argue that ZDDP levels have been decreased for the betterment of increased antiwear properties, so I'm again not worried about what GM states is necessary (given licensing, EPA considerations, economics of scale, etc).

The short of it is, oil viscosity and additives are a hot topic - which is why most of us are here - so I'm trying to tailor my oil selection to a rather expensive car with a very expensive engine, to suit my driving style and climate.
 
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We track our 2010 ZO6 a couple of times a month during the summer and use it often on weekends. We've been using Amsoil's HDD 5W30 with the fairly frequent track use and according to the oil pressure and oil temp gauge readings, it does just great. It has 1380 ppm ZDDP per Amsoil and that's substantiated by VOA and UOA analysis. It also has an HTHS of 3.5. There are no indications of any valve guide wear. We're using the Amsoil HDD 5W30 in several classic muscle cars also and we're very pleased with it's performance. It's an excellent oil !
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: RRA_223
Originally Posted By: JRed
Redline if you feel like shipping it.

Royal Purple makes a 5w-30 that has a lot of ZDDP, as I remember it. That'd work fine I would think. Might even be able to find that locally.

Wouldn't bother with 0w-20. One day it'll be hot and you'll feel like beating on the old girl a little bit - then you'll be thankful you used the 5w-30.



I was quite specific in mentioning my oil temps: I DO enjoy beating on the car, but without a track (and with the factory coolers) the oil just never gets over 200*. Ever. And yes, ambient temperatures right now are 100+ degrees and humid - I like to drive this car all year round, so in the spring, fall and winter it is even more pronounced; I cover the oil cooler just to keep it above 150*.

It stays so cold, I've contemplated switching out radiators with an internal exchanger just to get the oil hotter (and that's for M1 5w30 which is in it now).

Thanks


If the oil remains at low temps, then lower the first number, not the second. No sense risking a viscosity that is too low, even if infrequently, to reap the minuscule benefits (ESPECIALLY when talking about synthetics like Amsoil and Redline) of running a lower operating-temp viscosity.

If you drive it as infrequently and as gently as you're making it seem, then I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you may be over-thinking this whole oil thing...


I disagree, the engine and oil are running at normal engine temps, just not very hot engine temps. The first number is a cold cranking specification and its measure with the engine cold.

Run the viscosity the manual suggests. The diesel rated oil will be fine as its gas and diesel rated. Many people run 15W40 diesel rated oil in their 5.7L gas GM marine engines. so as long as its gas rated also, not a problem.


I denounce your disagreement; you seemed to disagree with a point I hadn't made.
 
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