Quicker oil pressure on cold start with synthetic?

[wcbcruzer]

For you guys running synthetic, do you notice a significant decrease in the amount of time it takes to build oil pressure on a cold start compared to dino oil? I'm not just talking about cold weather, even in the summer.

I'm considering switching to synthetic but I have to weigh out the price difference. Delo 400 runs about $10/gallon. Rotella synthetic runs about $17/gallon. I need 3 gallons per oil change. So that's $21 more for synthetic. Now if I go with Supertech at $7/gallon. We're talking $30 more per oil change. Is it worth it in your opinion? I have a bypass filter now. Although I'm not too fond of extended oil change intervals I'm willing to extend it from my usual 5000 miles to say 7000 miles?

Second question, what if I mixed synthetic with dino? Say, 2 gallons of Rotella synthetic with 1 gallon of Delo. That would be worth it to me if I would actually notice that my oil pressure builds quicker on cold starts. The few seconds it takes the oil pressure needle to move up when I first start the truck seems like an eternity. I'm trying to reduce that.

 

[Harley Anderson]

In my 05 dodge the oil pressure guage is fake, but I do notice how much easier the motor spins over with amsoil synthetic. I've been wanting to add a real oil pressure guage but haven't gotten around to it. With you being in so. cal the synthetic benefits probably won't be seen especially since you aren't into extended intervals. Another oil you should look at if you want some of the syn benefits at a cheap price is Mystic Semi Syn 15w40 at Tractor Supply. It can be had for $20 in a 2 gallon bottle.

 

[Gremil]

The synthetic manufacturers brag about their cold weather performance especially their cold cranking performance. Synthetics typically don't have paraffin and flow more readily in cold weather.

Another benefit is the lack of Viscosity Index (VI) additives in most synthetics to accomplish this. VI additives are added to a motor oil to prevent it from thickening excessively when it cools so it can flow more readily during cold starts. This is how petroleum achieves those 5W-30 numbers. Without the VI additives petroleum motor oil would be a 30W-30 or SAE 30 for example. The VI additives can shear back in high heat operation. Better not to use them or less of them. Synthetics flow readily with little or no VI additives.

 

[wcbcruzer]

Originally Posted By: Gremil
The synthetic manufacturers brag about their cold weather performance especially their cold cranking performance. Synthetics typically don't have paraffin and flow more readily in cold weather.


So they do flow more readily in cold weather right? At first it sounds like you're going to say the cold flow properties of synthetics are just talk, but then you actually support it.

 

[Gary Allan]

VI improvers are there to prevent a thinner base stock from thinning when heated. That's why when they shear you lose viscosity. You're probably thinking of pour point depressants. Without VI's ..your 5w-30 would probably (with todays basestocks) be a 10 weight. That's why 20 weights were so easy to incorporate into most engines. They had been running on them anyway for about 20 years ..after about 1000-1200 miles.

back on topic: synthetic oils will tend to flow easier

 

[1sttruck]

If you're going to blend it's probably better stay within a brand and type. I use either 2 gal Delvac 1300 15w40 with 1 gal of M1 T&S 5w40, or do a 50% blend of both. I started doing this after not being able to find an Exxon XD3 blend anymore.

 

[wcbcruzer]

Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
If you're going to blend it's probably better stay within a brand and type. I use either 2 gal Delvac 1300 15w40 with 1 gal of M1 T&S 5w40, or do a 50% blend of both. I started doing this after not being able to find an Exxon XD3 blend anymore.


Did you notice quicker oil pressure on cold starts with blending?

Has anyone had experience with Mystic Semi-synthetc??

 

[Cyprs]

From a cold Canadian perspective where ambient starting temps can be -40F (C) or lower, the value of a syn oil is priceless. Your American friends in Alaska and the northern US mainland I believe would agree too.

I use a high grade 0-30 POA Group 1V XD3 HEDO in all gassers year round and 0-40 XD3 in my Cummins diesel in winter.

I find a -40F start with 5 hours heat pad on pan and 5 hour blockheater in conjuction with a 100% syn oil an easier start than 35F with 15-40 dino. Summer run 15-40 dino oil can get drained prematurely due to quick timing of quick Fall cool weather.

Many agricultural diesel users are learning to use syn all year round to save premature unecessary OCI's with dino and they are also learning their engines do pressure up (lube faster) with summer time syn oil use compared to dino. I am learning the same. The big factor also is economics, up here a bulk Agricultural 100% HDEO syn oil sells for $5.00 per litre, a reasonable grade HDEO 15-40 dino oil now can run up to $3.25 litre, extend OCI a bit on syn and it more than pays for it self and gives better starts year round. This is why many buy bulk syn HDEOs up here for gassers too, they are about $3.00 less than store shelf SM rated oils.

To note, about 4-5 years ago, this XD3 HDEO was a semi syn oil, it had all the same specs as the current 100% syn oil in current Group 1V POA, it had a -60F flow rate and ambient start temp of -40C then as semi syn and it does now a full syn. Blends in your climate would thus have to be pretty good,I would blend my own syn/dino oils, oil companies only have to put I believe 9% syn content into their syn blends, their prices are quiet high generally considering that blend. I have talked to Esso (Exxon) techs, they say to stay in same brand when mixing syn/dino, no matter what the brand you choose, this keeps you in roughly the same add pack zone with oil of choice in mixing.

Cyprs

 

[wcbcruzer]

Great thanks Cyprs. That's just what I was looking for. Looks like I'll be blending on my next oil change. Only thing is I've got about 6 quarts of Delo CI-4+ oil left. I might just return it but we'll see. I've never bothered to look, are synthetics CJ-4 now? Or is it a completely different thing? I heard with dino oil it might not be a bad idea to mix 1 gallon of the old CI-4+ with 2 gallons of the new CJ-4 on an oil change. Not sure if the same applies to synthetic.

BTW, I heard Rotella 5w-40 synthetic is not really a full synthetic.

 

[Cyprs]

I dont know anything about mixing ratings in CJ-4 vrs CI-4 or other ratings.

Our 0-40 & 0-30 XD3 Group 1V syn is only CI-4 rated, for a 12 valve early 90s to mid 90's Cummins I can't imagine needing anything more than CI-4 rated oil for these engines, you dont need the reduced version of additives in a CJ-4 oil because you or I dont have the cat converter in our early Dodge Cummins models. For my old Cummins, I would evade the CJ-4 oil, I would welcome a CJ-4 HDEO syn in my XD3 for my gassers which do have cats in them.

XD3 0-40 is a true syn oil up here, the only other true syn oil up here to my knowledge is Mobil 1, another group 1V POA. Mobil and Esso up here are now one, business marriage.

I dont know what is true HDEO syn in the U.S., a good group 111 HDEO syn at CI-4 would do an older Cummins great, Probably a 5-40 rather than 0-40 may be better too considering your ambient warm temps in California.

I do believe what the Esso tech told me, that is to stick to the same brand/ratings in dino/syn oils if mixing, he said you may be okay with luck in interchanging brands of oil formulas that are similar , but he suggested staying within the same brand and rating in mixing syn/dino and be safe.

In past I have done 33/66 blends 4 lite syn/8litre dino in summer with 0-40 syn to 15-40 dino both XD3, very economical blend and effective, with a 12 litre/quart capacity blending in any percentage was easy. in 92 the cummin has 12 litre oil cap, yours may be the same or less in 96, Great engines the good old 12 valve cummins. Your Cummins will last forever and a day in your climate with a good syn oil, blend or even dino mixed with reasonable gentle drive offs.

Cyprs

 

[Harley Anderson]

Wcbcruzer, after reading about schaeffers products, I would seriously consider one of their products. The 7000 semi or the 9000 full synthetic oils and possibly extend your oci a little and save money. What bypass filter are you running?

 

[wcbcruzer]

Thanks for the info Cyprs. I think I'll start off by doing a 50/50 blend of Rotella synthetic with Rotella dino like you suggested. See how that goes.

I've heard good stuff about Schaeffer's oil too. Only problem is availability. I looked up the nearest dealer on their website and it was 65 miles away. Currently I'm running the Frantz bypass filter. I really like it. I installed it inbetween my OCI, there was probably about 3000 miles on the oil. The oil noticeably cleaned up whenever I pulled the dipstick out after a few hundred miles.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
IMHO the use of a 5w-40 synthetic HDEO will result in better lubricant flow (over a convential 15w-40 HDEO) in the most important areas within the lubrication system at a cold start

To take full advantage of the characteristics of these lubricants it is wise to consider a synthetic media FF filter

I have used Donaldson ELF filters over many millions of kms with great results
Donaldson claim a 30f advantage (sooner) off by-pass over conventional filters when using a 15w-40 lubricant

Pressure is "easy" to obtain with a viscous lubricant - system flow is what is most desirable

Regards
Doug

 

[Towel_Rail]

Originally Posted By: wcbcruzer
BTW, I heard Rotella 5w-40 synthetic is not really a full synthetic.


It's mostly Group III basestock. I wonder if that will change when they recert for CJ-4.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hello,
Rotella "T" Synthetic 5w-40 uses a variant of their excellent XHVI base fluid. This is used in Ferrari (Shell) lubricants and has been the foundation for Shell's Helix Ultra synthetic lubricants for many years

It was recently updated and this type of synthetic base (Chevron & Mobil use a similar type in some of their products) now performs as least as good as many PAO based lubricants

Regards
Doug

 

[wcbcruzer]

That's some great info. I went to the store today and looked at a jug of Rotella 5w-40 synthetic. It said CI-4+ on the back. However... The bottle was manufactured in 2004 (I guess they brought out old stock onto the shelves). There was only 4 left, I'm thinking I should go buy all 4 gallons if the new Rotella Synthetic is CJ-4.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
wcbcruzer - Have no fear, the CJ-4 version is at least as good as the CI-4+ version - and probably much better!

Regards
Doug

 

[BarkerMan]

Oil pressure readings can be interesting. The info you get can depend on where the gauge is in the system. With racing engines you would like to know what the pressure and flow is in several places. I found that my first experiences with synthetic oil were interesting. In one engine the gauge was slow to come up to pressure but the flow to the valve gear was greater and the oil got there quicker even though the pressure at the gauge was slow to show up. So the oil pressure reading would suggest that in this case synthetic oil produced poor results because it took longer to show pressure but the valve gear got more oil sooner with it.

Cold starts were interesting too. We would use an electric motor and read the amp gauge while starting to turn an engine in the normal manner. Then we pre-pressurized the system so it had a steady 60psi and then turned over the engine. It took the same amperage either way.

 

[Gremil]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
VI improvers are there to prevent a thinner base stock from thinning when heated. That's why when they shear you lose viscosity. You're probably thinking of pour point depressants. Without VI's ..your 5w-30 would probably (with todays basestocks) be a 10 weight. That's why 20 weights were so easy to incorporate into most engines. They had been running on them anyway for about 20 years ..after about 1000-1200 miles.

back on topic: synthetic oils will tend to flow easier

Actually I do realize that. I've gotten into the habit of explaining it the way I did because the average person doesn't understand it the other way very often. In actual practice, a multigrade motor oil, synthetic or petroleum, thickens less when cooled compared to the viscosity which is measured at 100 degrees C. The difference between a Group IV Synthetic and petroleum is that the synthetic remains very fluid when cooled with little or no help chemically. Petroleum needs help and the mechanics of it starts at the colder temperature and the VI additives control viscosity as it is heated to prevent too much of a viscosity change.

When I mentioned synthetic manufacturers bragging about their cold cranking numbers I was noting that these were something impressive and touted very often. I've met people who were totally unaware of synthetic motor oil superiority in high heat applications. They had heard so much about cold cranking benefits that they were under the impression that was where synthetics should be used, in cold climates.

 

[Mokanic]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hello,
Rotella "T" Synthetic 5w-40 uses a variant of their excellent XHVI base fluid. This is used in Ferrari (Shell) lubricants and has been the foundation for Shell's Helix Ultra synthetic lubricants for many years

It was recently updated and this type of synthetic base (Chevron & Mobil use a similar type in some of their products) now performs as least as good as many PAO based lubricants

Regards
Doug



We used Rotella 5W40 synthetic for years in our farm equipment and it is a good product. It's shortfall with us was it's inability to extend intervals to where we wanted them so we switched. It's a "jack-of-all-trades" oil that works well as a mixed-fleet oil. Scheaffer's 5W40 9000 series was priced very close to the Rotella product and based on our oil analysis it is very capable when it comes to extending intervals. It has done better for us than one full-PAO HDEO did. I do know that the 5W40 sales have suffered a good bit since the Triple-Protection CJ-4 product was introduced by Rotella. It's about $9 a gallon compared to $17 for the 5W40 and the results of the triple-protection clearly indicate a great improvement in base oil& additive content. Rotella has been in a quandry with their $9 a gallon oil whipping up on their own $17 a gallon oil. It will be interesting to see how the updated CJ-4 5W40 synthetic Rotella performs when it finally hits the shelves.