Question about M1

Pennzoil motor oil
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Originally Posted By: semaj281

It's safe to say the results had little relevance to my question. The threads consist mostly of oil recommendations and not M1 and its iron count.


I went to advanced search, searched only in this forum, searched for "mobil 1 iron" and set the time for newer than 6 months. I got many many threads that were obviously specific mobil 1 and "high iron" slug fests. One from this weekend or last week entitled "why is mobil 1 such a lightening rod"

Originally Posted By: semaj281

And thanks for your benefit of the doubt.


Your welcome.
 
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Depends on the oil.
wink.gif


Mobil 1 5w30 gets recommended when high temp deposit control is a priority. It is known to be strong in that area, even though it does not show the best results in used oil analysis.

Mobil 1 0w-40 is pretty much THE off-the-shelf multipurpose oil for high-end apps. It's really good stuff that carries more OEM approvals than anything on the shelf. It gets recommended for any application requiring one of those approvals, or if someone just needs a really good xw-40 oil that's available just about everywhere.

The High Mileage (High Mileage), Extended Performance (EP), Mobil 1 Truck and SUV, and Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck oils have better reputations than their plain-Jane counterparts (i.e. they sometimes make used oil analysis look better).

The Advanced Fuel Economy (AFE) oils have exceptional cold performance.

The 15w-50 just has a really strong following. It also has pretty good cold characteristics for its viscosity grade.


I think this is about correct. I too get tired of hearing about high iron with M1 but the fact is that it is still interesting to me because we have never seen an actual answer. Personally i feel like M1 has traded off a little metal wear (most likely in the noise) for high temp performance. I dont think there EP oils or High Mileage oils show this higher iron characteristic. If i had a very hot running or sludge prone engine i would probably choose a M1 product. The other interesting part is that regular Mobil 1 5w30 or 10w30, that normally shows the higher metals in some vehicles, look really good in a few others. I think it has been shown many times that a switch from M1 to something else showed better used oil analysis but once in a while it dont.
 
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I still think people read to deep into used oil analysis. Could be a lot of factors at play when using any oil.

I've used it for 100k miles over 8 years with no issues. My engine didn't magically become a rotting piston pushing carcass from using Mobil 1. Nor would it have been any different on any other oil. It's a matter of preference and who buys into marketing for X brand of oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: Anies
I still think people read to deep into used oil analysis. Could be a lot of factors at play when using any oil.

WAY too deep.

Heck, the fact that people read into them at all is problematic. I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand the number of people on this website that are truly qualified to speak intelligently about UOA wear metal results...
 
I like low UOA metal numbers as much as anybody, and having read some correlations in SAE papers, it does factor into my oil choices...but the used oil analysis are only one part of the equation.

A real problem seems to be much higher than the few ppm we normally see with Mobil 1 used oil analysis.

Scroll down to see the acceptable levels in Table I:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm
 
Quote:
but the fact is that it is still interesting to me because we have never seen an actual answer.


What source would you consider authoritative enough? Molakule suggested it was a byproduct of the AW seating process. He probably suggest it multiple times, but (probably-my speculation) got tired of preaching to a mostly deaf choir when the salvos commenced.

That worked for me without anything to trump it
21.gif
. For the most part ( in most bread and butter usage) there would only be unicorns to cite as failure examples.

(tone switch)

Now if these things would cause a casual M1 user to experience anxiety ... I would suggest an alternative product. One not reduced to a commonality of the masses ..one of distinction. Without compromise....
 
Any subject that brings three differing opinions as to the source from Terry Dyson, Molakule and modularv8 is very intriguing.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
but the fact is that it is still interesting to me because we have never seen an actual answer.


What source would you consider authoritative enough? Molakule suggested it was a byproduct of the AW seating process. He probably suggest it multiple times, but (probably-my speculation) got tired of preaching to a mostly deaf choir when the salvos commenced.

I think this is the real problem. Anything that might be a good answer gets buried under torrents of the same old same old.
 
Originally Posted By: Anies
I still think people read to deep into used oil analysis. Could be a lot of factors at play when using any oil.

I've used it for 100k miles over 8 years with no issues. My engine didn't magically become a rotting piston pushing carcass from using Mobil 1. Nor would it have been any different on any other oil. It's a matter of preference and who buys into marketing for X brand of oil.


Its not marketing. It is seeing a high wear metal number and trying to determine if it is detrimental or not. I think we could all agree that the difference between 10ppm and 20ppm over 5 or 10 thousand miles is not going to kill the engine prematurely.
 
I know from talking to Terry via e-mails about my used oil analysis and asking about M1 and high Iron that I was told it was just something in the oils composition that reacts with Iron surfaces in the engine and causes leaching of said iron into the oil. Not wear metals or shavings from the pistons/rings going up/down but just chemical iron residue.

The used oil analysis shows high iron because there is a lot of this residue.

I'm not trying to defend M1, nor am I trying to start a war.

But all this aside, XOM is a huge company with many people using their M1 synthetic and its endorsed by some big names like GM, Mercedes, BMW etc. Don't you think that us as members of some obscure forum really should take this into account and re-examine our thought process on M1 products?

I forget who said it but someone once said something to the effect that "Real world performance is much better than a used oil analysis, and M1 has the proof that their product stands up"

Steve
grin2.gif
 
semaj281, As you can see, lots of replies, reasons, justifications and even defensiveness of brands/labels.
But the bottom-line is some oils/weights just get consistently better used oil analysis in a given engine.

One man's approach....
Get as many used oil analysis as you can for a specific engine. Trend the results by brand/weight of oil analyzed. It won't
take you long to see which oils are producing the "just a little bit better" results in that engine.
Then choose your oil with peace of mind knowing how you selected it and then don't argue your rationale or results
with diehard M1 fans, extended OCI guys or "cheapest is best" guys.

You don't "win" in the threads of this forum. You win with a happy healthy motor.
 
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
I know from talking to Terry via e-mails about my used oil analysis and asking about M1 and high Iron that I was told it was just something in the oils composition that reacts with Iron surfaces in the engine and causes leaching of said iron into the oil. Not wear metals or shavings from the pistons/rings going up/down but just chemical iron residue.

The used oil analysis shows high iron because there is a lot of this residue.

I'm not trying to defend M1, nor am I trying to start a war.

But all this aside, XOM is a huge company with many people using their M1 synthetic and its endorsed by some big names like GM, Mercedes, BMW etc. Don't you think that us as members of some obscure forum really should take this into account and re-examine our thought process on M1 products?

I forget who said it but someone once said something to the effect that "Real world performance is much better than a used oil analysis, and M1 has the proof that their product stands up"

Steve
grin2.gif



Would this be similar to how we see high copper in a lot of chevy diesels due to the oil cooler. Sounds like it is the same type of thing. Secondly, how big are the particles that get leached? Would they cause the same issue as if they were were wear metals? If parts arent wearing and the iron is being leached, there are still iron particles in there right? Maybe its just so little, that it dont matter or it affects wear so little that it cant be detected, therefore insignificant.
 
Originally Posted By: JonfromCB
Get as many used oil analysis as you can for a specific engine. Trend the results by brand/weight of oil analyzed. It won't take you long to see which oils are producing the "just a little bit better" results in that engine.

Someone always brings it back to this. It sounds nice but it totally misses the point.

IF (big, bold IF) the "high iron" with some grades of Mobil 1 is from a chemical reaction and not actual wear, then another oil that gets lower iron results isn't necessarily better. It might even be worse. That's why it's so important to figure this out before drawing conclusions.
 
As long as we are talking ifs, I will give you mine. If I were not using Pennzoil synthetics in my three cars, they would all be on either Mobil 1 0W-20 or 5W-20 without any reservations.
 
Im still confused a little about the chemical leaching. Although it is not from actual metal to metal wear. The metal particles are still floating around in the oil right. So i guess it just becomes a questions of how many ppm of iron actually will cause a problem. I have read several articles stating that anything under a 100 or 150 was safe. If that is real, then the difference in 10 or 20 ppm may not make a bit of difference. It it is just this and mobil excelled everywhere else then it would be a worthwhile trade off.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Kind of like trying to watch a soccer game with all those darn horns blowing. The noise gets in the way.



The noise is the best part! I'm saddened that the World Cup is coming to an end. I'm going to get that sound as my ring tone :)

Off topic, but GO GERMANY GO!!
 
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