Quality (mini vs Fiat 500)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: 2008wrx
Got to love these little fun to drive cars. Which 1 is more reliable? Really really like the Abarth style ....


My wife has owned 2 Fiat's so far:

2012 FIat 500 Sport - only problems with it were related to a few odd recalls (one was for the tire iron), plus the plastic side skirts needed to have the double sided tape replaced, as the part of the skirt near the front wheels would eventually lose their stickiness after a hot summer. Clock in instrument panel is always losing time.

2012 Fiat 500 Abarth - plastic side skirts also lost their stickiness after a summer. Clock in instrument panel is always gaining time.

If you buy a Pop or a Lounge, then you eliminate the side skirt issue.
Oh, and wear a watch, so that you eliminate the clock issue.

I'm not sure how many of the people who posted before I did actually owned either a Mini or a Fiat, so you might want to take their opinions with a grain of salt.

What I know is my wife loves her Fiats, and we both would recommend them to anyone looking for a car in this segment. Our neighbor bought a 2013 Fiat 500 Pop last summer, and has been blissfully happy since.

BC.
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
My wife has owned 2 Fiat's so far:

Is one of them a back-up in case the first one fails?


Sorry... couldn't resist.
smile.gif
 
You can pick up the stylish 500 for the same money you'd pay for some grim Korean design.
This isn't true of the Mini.
Both are greatly enlarged versions of ancient shapes.
If neither is a reliability champ, both have their charms.
I don't know that one is really better than the other, but if I were looking for such a car, I'd buy the Fiat.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
My wife has owned 2 Fiat's so far:

Is one of them a back-up in case the first one fails?


Sorry... couldn't resist.
smile.gif




Actually, it would be the source for a replacement side skirt if one fell off the car completely.

Nope, no owning two Fiat's at the same time.
The 500 Sport was traded in for the Abarth.

She was sold the moment they fired it up in the showroom, for her to take out on her test drive.

BC.
 
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: OriginalRocket
I was between these three cars when last week (longer, as I research a car heavily before purchasing)

I read the Car & Driver compario between these 3 exact cars, and after a test drive of them all. I bought a Fiesta ST.

Ford had the edge as Last month I was invited to a FORD event and was able to take the Fiesta and Focus ST on a parking lot Track. Speeds where 0-55 through the course. The Fiesta handled like no other car.

Quality, as in reliability? FORD all the way.

Quality as in interior bits and pieces, mini, then Ford, last Fiat.

Overall ride quality, Mini if you like soft and comfy, Ford if you like a firmer ride that extrudes please bash me into corners. FIAT if you don't like driving for very long.

About the only thing the Fiat 500 has over the rest is style. It looks like no other car on the road. But I guess you can say that with a Mini too.

If you like performance, do not look at the Fiat 500. The Ford will walk all over the mini in every category that requires turning the wheel.

So with all that said. I chose a Fiesta ST due to the reported reliability, compared to the issues mini and fiat people are having.

Plus, optioned to how I like a car, the Mini was 3 grand more than the Fiesta.


Well yeah. A Fiesta ST is a 20K car street price. A basic Fiat is about 14K.


The Abarth referenced by the original poster is a $22k car.

And looking at Fiat's website, the 500 starts at $16.4k.
 
I own a MINI. I believe the interior quality to be top notch. Most Americans associate small with cheap. The MINI isn't cheap, and the interior shows it. There have been drivetrain issues... Early automatics with the CVT had lots of trouble. (If you want an automatic, why buy a MINI?)

Some model years with the S engine have had trouble with the timing chains and their guides. If you want an S, you should research this in detail before buying.

Aside from these issues, the MINI isn't any worse than the average car IMHO. Of course, these issues can be big if you buy the wrong one.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
If the OP wants a retro looking car, why not buy a VW Beetle?


Both Mini and 500 are cool and fun drivers cars. VW was never cool, not original and certainly not new ones.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: artificialist
If the OP wants a retro looking car, why not buy a VW Beetle?


Both Mini and 500 are cool and fun drivers cars. VW was never cool, not original and certainly not new ones.

In many places around the world beetle is considered cool.
 
If you want reliable, get a Toyota Corolla. If you want something that is a fun to drive urban commuter, get a Fiat.

I bought my wife a Fiat 500 Pop and it makes her happy. Yeah, if you look at it enough, you can find faults of where they cheapened construction or did things as a compromise in terms of ergonomics and design.

My wife drives like a bat out of [censored] and winds that Fiat 500 up and so far, has been running fine. Only issue so far has been a fading LCD segment on the outside temp display of the instrument cluster. I know that will probably be a total cluster change but I will get that take care of before it goes out of warranty.

Oil changes are too bad but the filter placement will require so long ratchet extensions and swivel socket to get the filter cap off. Underneath for the oil drain plug requires removing a conformal panel but that is not all that difficult.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
So only positive posts about 500 and MINI is made by owners. But what do they know.


I run into that all the time with BMWs. There are lots of "experts" on BMW maintenance costs who haven't even sat in a BMW(and I think some would have trouble just spelling BMW).

I really like the Abarth, and the Abarth forums I've visited show more issues with dealers than with the cars themselves. I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a 2013 when my local dealer was selling them for $7k off MSRP...
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
So only positive posts about 500 and MINI is made by owners. But what do they know.


Confirmation bias.

Pretty much every reputable source of reliability data does not have the Mini Cooper or Fiat 500 coming in towards the top.

But, reliability isn't the only measure of an automobile. It's nice to have choices.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: chrisri
So only positive posts about 500 and MINI is made by owners. But what do they know.


Confirmation bias.

Pretty much every reputable source of reliability data does not have the Mini Cooper or Fiat 500 coming in towards the top.

But, reliability isn't the only measure of an automobile. It's nice to have choices.
smile.gif



And who exactly is more reliable about ownership experiences of a vehicle than the people who have actually owned that vehicle?

I'm not going to tell you about my wife's coworker who owned a Mini S, and all the work that he had to perform on his car to keep it running, because I am not directly involved in that car's history, plus, he bought it used, from CarMax, and got rooked on the deal, but was at least smart enough to buy a CarMax warranty with it.

I have mentioned that the Fiat isn't perfect, as they like to drop side skirts during hot summers, if you buy either a Sport or an Abarth version. But, the engines haven't seized, the transmissions haven't eaten their clutches, and they keep my wife and my neighbor driving around with a huge smile on their faces everyday.

Would you rather listed to people whom have never owned one, and can only seem to say that Fiat stands for "Fix It Again, Tony"?

BC.
 
Abarth 500 and MINI Cooper are somewhat upmarket fairly complex small cars and of course they won't be as reliable as 2 litre Camry or Accord. It's quite harder to build small car then bigger one due to space issues. Compromises will be made. Fiat lost their reputation in late 70s and 80s and still carry that burden. 128, Regatta, Ritmo, 131 indeed were badly built cars, but that was 30 years ago. I will say today Fiats are average in terms of reliability.
So why do I drive them? First of they make best diesels, very good petrols, are quite fast for what they are and are very practical and spacious. My Stilo have 160k, all original, wife's little Punto have 220k and 15 years, and in that time it needed clutch, exhaust, one track end, and HT leads.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
And who exactly is more reliable about ownership experiences of a vehicle than the people who have actually owned that vehicle?

Would you rather listed to people whom have never owned one, and can only seem to say that Fiat stands for "Fix It Again, Tony"?

Are you implying that JD Power, Intellichoice, Consumer Reports, True Delta, and other aggregators of reliability data are wrong?

Where do you think those companies get their data? I have personally completed surveys for at least two of the companies listed above, so they are the voice of the owners, so to speak.
 
Originally Posted By: strat81
Are you implying that JD Power, Intellichoice, Consumer Reports, True Delta, and other aggregators of reliability data are wrong?

Where do you think those companies get their data? I have personally completed surveys for at least two of the companies listed above, so they are the voice of the owners, so to speak.


I was referring to the people on the internet, like here, where you have people spouting off stuff that they read that someone else posted about something they ready on another site, that was posted by yet another person, and claiming that as personal experience.

As for the "Sources" of data above you quoted, not a single one of those sources actually determines the conditions the vehicle is put under, during the "evaluation" of the vehicle. Did they engine sludge up because the owner drove for 35k miles without ever getting the oil changed? Does the car interior rattle because the owner drives on road surfaces that look like bomb testing facilities? Is the owner giving the car a poor mark because their engine requires premium fuel, and they hate paying for anything other than regular?

I put almost no value into their reliability data.

BC.
 
Regardless of brand, most small and sub-compact cars do not tend to fair well in terms of long term reliability. Many factors include the demographic many are sold to.

On the cheaper economy budget compacts, they are usually sold as first time buyers like college kids and/or low income buyers who have vehicle maintenance or taking care of a car in general low down on their list.

In the case of more upscale compacts like the Fiat and Mini, the low income demographic is less prevalent but you now have most buyers who are predominately young, female and still have a low preponderance of what car ownership and maintenance is involved in maintaining them.

In either case coupled with manufacturers in general cost cutting more on design and build construction in compacts, they do not tend to fair to well on average compared to larger sedan vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
In either case coupled with manufacturers in general cost cutting more on design and build construction in compacts, they do not tend to fair to well on average compared to larger sedan vehicles.


Yes.

What's acceptable in terms of imperfections for an owner is entirely different to someone who buys a sub-compact, versus someone who buys a mainstream family sedan.

A toy fun car can get away with problems that a family sedan could never get away with.
Clutch failures, loud exhausts, turbo lag, rattles, distinct styling, personality, as you will be told, over and over again.

BC.
 
I think there tends also to be a "something I know vs. something I don't know" factor here... Example, MINI automatic transmissions failing, while Honda Accords and Civics of the same vintage also were "glass", and yet their reputation is seemingly less tarnished after all is said and done.

This coming from a 49-year old male engineer who drives a MINI.

I was looking at a site today "carcomplaints.com". Seems that the vehicles that don't have an achilles heel of some sort are few and far between.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top