Vehicle recommendation (4 seat, sporty, manual, reliable)

[IndyIan]

Go to track and check are they slower.
I was faster on Autox with Yugo than some people with Audi.

Yes, but for fun on the street, I find I don't want/need to over autocross speeds too often? I've hooned around in a Viper on the street which was a fun experience for sure, but you had to be so careful with where, when, and how you opened it up, and 2 seconds of WO got you into losing your license/deadly accident territory real quick.
But looking back, it was more fun and I learned much more about driving, playing around for hours with a 116hp Miata on not too sticky tires, zipping around industrial parks in the evening.
Anyways there's always something faster out there, doesn't make the slower cars less interesting once you get the handling balanced to where you like it.

 

[CarlB]

Elantra N, Civic Si, Civic Type R, Integra Type S

 

[meep]

Agree. I learned so much with a 2.2L underpowered Subaru wagon on 14” steelies, because I could drive at its limits within normal commuting speeds. Everyone else in that area was driving aggressively with BMWs, Audis and Cadillacs - for me to keep up I was wot and working the vehicle. Silly wheels and tires let me learn what happened at normal speeds to balance the vehicle approaching, in, and out of turns.

I also had a gen2 Miata. I could not out drive that car, and it sure was fun.

 

[edyvw]

Yes, but for fun on the street, I find I don't want/need to over autocross speeds too often? I've hooned around in a Viper on the street which was a fun experience for sure, but you had to be so careful with where, when, and how you opened it up, and 2 seconds of WO got you into losing your license/deadly accident territory real quick.
But looking back, it was more fun and I learned much more about driving, playing around for hours with a 116hp Miata on not too sticky tires, zipping around industrial parks in the evening.
Anyways there's always something faster out there, doesn't make the slower cars less interesting once you get the handling balanced to where you like it.

Viper? Who talks Viper.
BMW 328 is20x vehicle Focus is, or 100X Neon is.
You can track it without disintegrating it, you can go from track to dinner, next day to office. I take kids to daycare and school and go to track, or in winter I drop them off and go to ski.
Definition of sports limousine is that, not Focus. I did cross country trip in 328, which is less tiring than my Sequoia is, and I can still track it.

 

[IndyIan]

Viper? Who talks Viper.
BMW 328 is20x vehicle Focus is, or 100X Neon is.
You can track it without disintegrating it, you can go from track to dinner, next day to office. I take kids to daycare and school and go to track, or in winter I drop them off and go to ski.
Definition of sports limousine is that, not Focus. I did cross country trip in 328, which is less tiring than my Sequoia is, and I can still track it.

My point with Viper is that DD entertainment isn't directly correlated with more performance.

For sure a 3 series is a better overall vehicle than a Focus, and I would drive a BMW wagon if I had the budget or time for it. But if I was autocrossing or tracking it, I would still need to do the same suspension tweaks my "peasant" cars got.

I guess my main take away was that I just found it very surprising how bad the average run of the mill 3 series was at autocross? And I think most people would be too. They are a nice competent driving car, but nothing magical happened in the cones that I could tell... Lots of understeer on entry, and one wheel peel on exits... Seemed about the same as lot of regular fwd cars with a similarly inexperienced driver?

You definitely have your preference, which is fine, but automatically discounting other cars as not entertaining, or potentially entertaining to drive is something I don't agree with.

 

[edyvw]

My point with Viper is that DD entertainment isn't directly correlated with more performance.

For sure a 3 series is a better overall vehicle than a Focus, and I would drive a BMW wagon if I had the budget or time for it. But if I was autocrossing or tracking it, I would still need to do the same suspension tweaks my "peasant" cars got.

I guess my main take away was that I just found it very surprising how bad the average run of the mill 3 series was at autocross? And I think most people would be too. They are a nice competent driving car, but nothing magical happened in the cones that I could tell... Lots of understeer on entry, and one wheel peel on exits... Seemed about the same as lot of regular fwd cars with a similarly inexperienced driver?

You definitely have your preference, which is fine, but automatically discounting other cars as not entertaining, or potentially entertaining to drive is something I don't agree with.

I don’t know how autox ended up in here? Like I told you, I was faster with Yugo in autox than Audi 80.
How is autox relevant to this topic? I personally would never run 3 series at autox (1 E82, maybe). E90 in lightest version is 3500lbs vehicle, and later models are far heavier. They are good track car bcs. they have extremely strong chassis, they are already made with M vehicle in mind. They already come with spots to bolt on coolers etc. if necessary. They already have cooling tunnels for brakes, you can bolt on larger brakes from stronger models without any modifications. You can install M control arms without modifications.
I can’t remember when was the last time I saw Focus ST on track, not to mention Neon. Why? Because autox is one thing, another thing is when you need to push vehicle for an hour or more without stop to the max.
Yes, Focus is smaller, and also cheap. Which means it is pinned down to move any potential kidney stone once you sit in it.
By the way, which car doesn’t need tweaks for track? Even Porsche needs different pads, at least.

 

[Ws6]

Integra Type S.

FWD
Manual
Sporty
4-seats
Reliable
Holds value
Looks sexy

Shockingly accommodating rear seat.