QSUD is dexos 1..Ultra is not..implications?

[fdcg27]

A quick comparison of both virgin specs as well as UOAs will show that if Ashland can claim that Valvoline oils meet or exceed Dexos 1, Ultra must exceed the requirements of Dexos 1.
There is no Valvoline oil in a class with Ultra.
Most of the UOAs of Synpower you see will show it to have inadeqaute TBN retention to be run to the extent allowed by the GM IOLM system. Check the UOA forum.
I write this as someone running Valvoline oil in one of my cars.
I also have three jugs of FAR Ultra in the garage, and they will be used in the Forester for its next three OCIs, followed with a UOA.
The UOA of Synpower I posted for this car was uninspiring at best.
OTOH, I've posted a great UOA of Nextgen Maxlife from my old BMW.
Synpower is not in the same league as Ultra, nor even PP.
I'd use Nextgen Maxlife without hesitation, based upon my results with it. Not too sure about Synpower, based upon my results with it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A quick comparison of both virgin specs as well as UOAs will show that if Ashland can claim that Valvoline oils meet or exceed Dexos 1, Ultra must exceed the requirements of Dexos 1.

PU also meets the old Vette spec, which was more robust in the first place. In the end, it's up to people to do what they want. GM can "recommend" or "require" dexos1 all they want, but the oil pan isn't a sealed, tamper proof unit nor do they hold a gun to one's head at oil change time. People need to make a decision and live with the consequences, if any.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A quick comparison of both virgin specs as well as UOAs will show that if Ashland can claim that Valvoline oils meet or exceed Dexos 1, Ultra must exceed the requirements of Dexos 1.
There is no Valvoline oil in a class with Ultra.
Most of the UOAs of Synpower you see will show it to have inadeqaute TBN retention to be run to the extent allowed by the GM IOLM system. Check the UOA forum.
I write this as someone running Valvoline oil in one of my cars.
I also have three jugs of FAR Ultra in the garage, and they will be used in the Forester for its next three OCIs, followed with a UOA.
The UOA of Synpower I posted for this car was uninspiring at best.
OTOH, I've posted a great UOA of Nextgen Maxlife from my old BMW.
Synpower is not in the same league as Ultra, nor even PP.
I'd use Nextgen Maxlife without hesitation, based upon my results with it. Not too sure about Synpower, based upon my results with it.


Basically you like Valvoline conventional oil but feel the Synpower isn't suited for longer OCI's?
I've read others that felt the same way.
I probably wouldn't pay full price for Synpower but the NAPA Synthetic is a great deal when it's on sale for $3.49. I would probably limit my OCI to 7K.


PS: Whether or not PU meets dexos1 I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a GM which spec'd dexos1.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: Falken
I think the problem with Ultra is it is too good for the current market to turn a profit off of.

Not everyone has a turbo'ed race car.

I think they released this oil 2-3 years too early, but I guess they did need a product to satisfy the turbo'ed cars as more economy cars are coming turbo'ed.
PP is approved for HTO-06, which is specifically designed for turbo'd engines.

 

[Errtt]

[/quote] PP is approved for HTO-06, which is specifically designed for turbo'd engines. [/quote]

Just looked at one of my jugs of PP and says "No other leading motor oil provides better wear protection" and it Exceeds API SN... so use it with confidence

 

[mark pruett]

Chrysler says: (according to my 2005 Dakota manual)

"Engine Oil: Use SAE 5w-30 API Certified meeting material standard MS-6395"

The catch comes in when the certifying body is also the manufacturer- that's what's tripping people up in this thread re: Dexos required or not. Things get a little gray vs. the API/ILSAC/ACEA standards which aren't manufacturer-specific.

I'm surprised GM's lawyers let that "or equivalent" in there without specifying what "equivalent" means. I mean, I might think that an oil meeting VW 502.1 is equivalent, but someone else may think that MB 229.5 is equivalent. Or more likely, some knucklehead won't pay attention and will use SN rated oil without anything other than SN/GF-5, and claim that since they sold it in the store and was API certified, that it must be equivalent.

 

[bigt61]

Having worked in dealerships most of my life, I can say I've never seen or heard of any warranty claim of engine failure or component failure denied due to type or brand of oil used. It was always because the vehicle was abused - the oil was never changed, ever...or the oil somehow leaked out of the engine - drain plug or filter loose. We had a Lexus that was leased that had a catastrophic camshaft failure and it appeared the oil had never been changed in 35,000 miles - which it probably could have survived if the owner had simply added oil, he didn't - too busy I guess. There was nothing fluid left in the sump - just pure sludge and hardened carbon. Warranty denied - please pay $17,000. People who lease cars can be dangerous to the next owner, that's why all the free maintenance programs being offered by high end manufacturers. We also had a Honda with over 60k come in that never had an oil change in its 3 years. It was noisy, but after fresh oil and a new filter, it was quiet and running fine. The lady who owned it said she didn't know she was supposed to get the oil changed.

 

[fdcg27]

Exactly.
Now, there are a couple of UOAs of API SN Synpower that look to have better TBN retention than what is typically seen with API SM Synpower, so the SN formulation may be better suited to longer drains.
I agree that the NAPA branded syn is a great buy on sale, although I paid even less for the Synpower I used with closeout pricing and MIRs.
It's not that I don't like Valvoline oils, it's just that I'd feel more comfortable running with either PP or Ultra out to 7K.
If all one ever did were 5K drains, then Synpower would be the equal of any oil available, since Valvoline oils typically show very low wear metals on short drain UOAs.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
The lady who owned it said she didn't know she was supposed to get the oil changed.

No common sense at all. The morons live, walk, and drive among us! Pretty scary.
Many of these clueless people wander through life living from day-to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck, catastrophe-to-catastrophe, and they wonder why so many bad things happen to them. The old saying "dumb as a box of rocks" comes to mind. What really gets me is that a few of these people are so unbelievably lucky! I know people like this.

 

[tightwad]

Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: bigt61
The lady who owned it said she didn't know she was supposed to get the oil changed.

No common sense at all. The morons live, walk, and drive among us! Pretty scary.
Many of these clueless people wander through life living from day-to-day, paycheck-to-paycheck, catastrophe-to-catastrophe, and they wonder why so many bad things happen to them. The old saying "dumb as a box of rocks" comes to mind. What really gets me is that a few of these people are so unbelievably lucky! I know people like this.

Careful, now. I think this comparison comes close to insulting an innocent box of rocks! LOL

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: mark pruett
I'm surprised GM's lawyers let that "or equivalent" in there without specifying what "equivalent" means.

I would guess they mean it in the most literal sense, as in an oil that legitimately claims to meet dexos1 yet isn't licensed, or perhaps one that is still licensed for the old Vette spec. After all, it's not like the dexos1 requirements are some trade secret and any reasonable oil company should be able to tell if something they're blending would conceivably pass dexos1 or not if tested.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Exactly.
Now, there are a couple of UOAs of API SN Synpower that look to have better TBN retention than what is typically seen with API SM Synpower, so the SN formulation may be better suited to longer drains.
I agree that the NAPA branded syn is a great buy on sale, although I paid even less for the Synpower I used with closeout pricing and MIRs.
It's not that I don't like Valvoline oils, it's just that I'd feel more comfortable running with either PP or Ultra out to 7K.
If all one ever did were 5K drains, then Synpower would be the equal of any oil available, since Valvoline oils typically show very low wear metals on short drain UOAs.



Gotcha....and I agree.

 

[double vanos]

I was at my Walmart two days ago and it was loaded with PU. Maybe Walmart is only carrying it where it sells well. I'm sure they have logistics people that can figure out where certain products sell best and control the inventory as such.
Then again, maybe pure happenstance....