Pushing PYB to 10000 miles.

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I agree with msmoke00, do a UOA half way through the change through the dipstick tube. Many vehicles can do what you are wanting to do, but you need to make sure it is going to work for your Toyota. The baseline is incredibly important in this experiment.

I don't think you are hearing different stories from a bunch of "schizophrenics". Rather, you are being told to proceed with caution and thorough information. That being said, it is your truck and you can do what you want with it. I don't think that name calling for honest opinions is called for.
 
Originally Posted By: zamadison
..... This reminds me of why I stopped visiting this forum about 5 years ago. It's a collection of schizophrenics.


Two of my 5 personalities thought that was funny..
sick.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: zamadison
A while ago I asked how far can you push PYB. I've decided to try it in my oldest car. Today I did an OCI with 5w20 PYB in a 4runner with the 5vzfe. I'm planning on changing again at 10k miles. Filter is a Fram TG3614.........


I think use of the TG oil filter will help, good filtering, lots of dirt-holding capacity. I like TG in my cartridge-filter applications, chevy & BMW. ... I'd recommend using an engine flush when done. Problem with conventional dino oils is ring deposits, where high temperatures and oil dwell-time occur in the engine. Also, use big doses of Techron gasoline additive to clean out deposits the flush might have missed.
 
I remember seeing a UOA about 6 months ago of PYB in a 90s Saturn S being run for 7500 miles (I'd link but I fail at finding it). TBN was at 0.6 or something similarly low but wear metals were good. While that doesn't directly translate to your motor, a sample around there would probably be a good idea. Wouldn't want to give sludge a chance to build up!
 
I would recommend whatever interval that would keep the engine spotlessly clean with no varnish. I don't know exactly what that OCI would be, but I know it's NOT 10,000 miles ....
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I would recommend whatever interval that would keep the engine spotlessly clean with no varnish. I don't know exactly what that OCI would be, but I know it's NOT 10,000 miles

How do you know? Gut feel or objective evidence to the contrary?
 
Originally Posted By: msmoke00
Hopefully voice of reason talking here. If you haven't done any other UOAs (with their limitations in mind), there needs to be a baseline for the motor established. From there, then you can go into test oil conditions once you know how your old/current regimen compares. If you want to go full into the 10k, do a UOA to part way through to monitor. One run will not be set in stone either. I'm for the idea of seeing how far it will go, just don't go into it full bore and pray at 10k it'll be fine.

Agreed. I would do an UOA at around 7-8k to see if it can be extended to 10k or more.

But if I do 10k OCI then I would prefer syn-blend at the very least. More than 10k then full syn is needed.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I would recommend whatever interval that would keep the engine spotlessly clean with no varnish. I don't know exactly what that OCI would be, but I know it's NOT 10,000 miles

How do you know? Gut feel or objective evidence to the contrary?


Until I see an opened up spotless engine that's been ran on dino for 10,000 miles, I'm not gonna recommend it. I've seen lots of varnished up engines posted on here that have seen reported OCI's far less than 7500 miles. My personal gut feeling is dino oils can keep engines clean for 5000 miles, but only under the best of circumstances like a well operating PCV system and all highway miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I would recommend whatever interval that would keep the engine spotlessly clean with no varnish. I don't know exactly what that OCI would be, but I know it's NOT 10,000 miles

How do you know? Gut feel or objective evidence to the contrary?


Until I see an opened up spotless engine that's been ran on dino for 10,000 miles, I'm not gonna recommend it. I've seen lots of varnished up engines posted on here that have seen reported OCI's far less than 7500 miles. My personal gut feeling is dino oils can keep engines clean for 5000 miles, but only under the best of circumstances like a well operating PCV system and all highway miles.


01.gif
 
I dont know why you would risk engine damage just to say you could.
PYB is a very good dino oil but it is only that.
Pennzoil does not advise this Im sure.
Silly
 
Now, lots of factors are here to be factored in, lol.
But, I can say this. I had a friend who had a Cavalier, probably 2000 model or 2002 or so. It had the famously easy on oil, long lasting, 2.2 liter 4 cylinder in it. Now, this was around 2005, so it wasn't Pennzoil YB SN rated, but it was Pennzoil YB, don't remember if that was SL or SM back then. Now, there are many factors here, I realize. I will give you my word that he and his wife were easy drivers. Which may have not been the best thing for it, actually. But, they were both heavy, I would say about 525 lbs combined.
So, I don't know if you would consider that the oil was under any severe service or not, BUT he ran that oil over 9,000 miles, according to him.

It would hardly drain. It was almost like glue. I spilled a little on my garage floor and I couldn't wipe it back off for the life of me. It was so sticky and gooey. I could just feel that extra quart sprawled out through the engine, sticking and clinging in there, not going to drain out with the rest, lol. It was the worst looking oil I've seen come out of a properly functioning engine (no intake/head/etc. gasket leaks).

Just sharing my experience. Different rated oil, different engine, guess it doesn't apply, but it was interesting.

I know oils have came even farther since then. I'd just be sure to keep an eye on it if you want to stretch it 10,000 miles. I want to say I'd bet money that the TBN would be shot by 10K, but there's always a chance.
 
It's kind of like sticking a knife in a electric socket....

The vast majority of folks don't do it because they intuitively know the result and don't want to risk the logical outcome.

Others, instead, require the "shocking" proof before they understand what the rest of us already know.
 
IMHO - we all worry FAR TOO MUCH about something that requires no worries. Back in the 1970s and 80s, oil was [censored] as were the filters and those cars managed to run 200K+ miles on them without a thought (provided you put the miles on it faster than it rusted out). With the improvements in engine management, oil, filters, and general improvements in engine design, it would not matter what you do to most engines, they would take it and keep right on running. Why do we not do that? I assume because there is no fun in that and we need something to fret over...
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
IMHO - we all worry FAR TOO MUCH about something that requires no worries. Back in the 1970s and 80s, oil was [censored] as were the filters and those cars managed to run 200K+ miles on them without a thought (provided you put the miles on it faster than it rusted out). With the improvements in engine management, oil, filters, and general improvements in engine design, it would not matter what you do to most engines, they would take it and keep right on running. Why do we not do that? I assume because there is no fun in that and we need something to fret over...


^ WINNER ^
 
Originally Posted By: zamadison
The goal is to see if PYB 5w20 SN can be pushed to 10k in this car without catastrophic results.


I'm sure you'll be able to do that 10,000 without catastrophe. But what is your point?

In the late '70s we had a neighbor who changed the oil in his '73 Chevy 350 with Valvoline 10w30. After 10,000, it was still running. After 20,000, it was still running. Then at just past 25,000, it threw a rod. Not sure what his point was, either.

If your goal is repeated 10k OCIs on this car, I'm sure you'll have your answer in about 40 to 60k. You may not like it.
 
Originally Posted By: Jaymus
Now, lots of factors are here to be factored in, lol.
But, I can say this. I had a friend who had a Cavalier, probably 2000 model or 2002 or so. It had the famously easy on oil, long lasting, 2.2 liter 4 cylinder in it. Now, this was around 2005, so it wasn't Pennzoil YB SN rated, but it was Pennzoil YB, don't remember if that was SL or SM back then. Now, there are many factors here, I realize. I will give you my word that he and his wife were easy drivers. Which may have not been the best thing for it, actually. But, they were both heavy, I would say about 525 lbs combined.
So, I don't know if you would consider that the oil was under any severe service or not, BUT he ran that oil over 9,000 miles, according to him.

It would hardly drain. It was almost like glue. I spilled a little on my garage floor and I couldn't wipe it back off for the life of me. It was so sticky and gooey. I could just feel that extra quart sprawled out through the engine, sticking and clinging in there, not going to drain out with the rest, lol. It was the worst looking oil I've seen come out of a properly functioning engine (no intake/head/etc. gasket leaks).

Just sharing my experience. Different rated oil, different engine, guess it doesn't apply, but it was interesting.

I know oils have came even farther since then. I'd just be sure to keep an eye on it if you want to stretch it 10,000 miles. I want to say I'd bet money that the TBN would be shot by 10K, but there's always a chance.


Over 9,000 miles on Pennzoil YB and then looking like glue when it drains out? I don't doubt that for a second. And going by your description, I'm pretty sure that Cavalier engine was full of sludge along with the accompanied varnish.
 
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