Purolator is still listening- Engineering report
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Originally Posted By: HangFire
Engineering ran the uncut filter through three tests:
1. 90PSI in water, to see if it leaks
2. an Impulse Test of 0-100 PSI for hundreds of cycles (failed to write down how many cycles). This is also a leak inducing test.
3. Restriction Test - A low pressure flow of 3GPM of 30W oil at 180F is passed through the filter and the deltaP is measured.
Seems strange they think they need to immerse in water to find an oil leak.
Isn't that what flourescent engine oil dye is for? Or just wipe clean, run the test, and look for any oil on the thing when you're done.
Many things about this whole episode are bizarre. Hard time believing it could clog like that. Guess we can't trust Puro's paper media for pore size quality control, or this:
Engineering ran the uncut filter through three tests:
1. 90PSI in water, to see if it leaks
2. an Impulse Test of 0-100 PSI for hundreds of cycles (failed to write down how many cycles). This is also a leak inducing test.
3. Restriction Test - A low pressure flow of 3GPM of 30W oil at 180F is passed through the filter and the deltaP is measured.
Seems strange they think they need to immerse in water to find an oil leak.
Isn't that what flourescent engine oil dye is for? Or just wipe clean, run the test, and look for any oil on the thing when you're done.
Many things about this whole episode are bizarre. Hard time believing it could clog like that. Guess we can't trust Puro's paper media for pore size quality control, or this:
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I think some of their marketing shills hang out here trying to cover up the issue ... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
Really? Please enlighten us on who that might be? The only person I know here on this website who works for a filter manufacturer is motorking. There are no marketing shills from Purolator on this website. No one outside this forum will ever take it seriously if it is just a bunch of grown men spreading rumors about the others because they don't agree with their position. Get over it zee...it has gone on long enough. The only reason I can see someone aggressively "pointing out" or "exposing" people that may work for a company you dislike would be to cover your own tracks since they are the "competition".
LoL, yeah really. Just in case you don't know it, you (and a few others) constantly accuse a few members posting here of working for Fram just because they don't have anything good to say about Purolator. So maybe you should "get over it", meaning you should accept that people will bad mouth a product that is inferior and is prone to failure. That's just how it works ... people don't want to use a product that has known problems, and obviously Purolator has problems right now. And as I've said a few times, IF they can get their act back together and prove to the consumer that things are fixed and back on track, THEN people might start using their products again. Many companies over the years have vaporized due to the lack of quality/value in their products. Trying to sell defective products is the first step to derailment.
I hope Purolator does open their eyes and focus on issues that are obviously being seen by the consumer. If they don't they will wither away and vaporize with time. I know how this should be handled internally by a company that designs and manufactures products, and so far I haven't seen much indication that anything is going on except for this post that HangFire has posted - which many here appreciate. So, time will tell if Purolator can pull this one out or not.
How many filters didn't that rant get you? Or is it based on a point system?
How about that Fram Ultra? I hear that is a real rock catcher.....
My Free Fram Ultra Offer was based on five posts against Purolator gets me one Fram Ultra. I have enough now, but I will still keep at it. I plan on selling the extras. Maybe I'll buy a new car soon with the money. I won't be using a Tearolator on it for sure. Fram Ultra goes on immediately. They haven't done a thing to fix the Tearolator Tearing Problem, TTP for short. Meanwhile a dollar or so more buys you a world class synthetic media with a stainless steel screen behind it. The Monarch of oil filters, the Fram Ultra.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I think some of their marketing shills hang out here trying to cover up the issue ... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
Really? Please enlighten us on who that might be? The only person I know here on this website who works for a filter manufacturer is motorking. There are no marketing shills from Purolator on this website. No one outside this forum will ever take it seriously if it is just a bunch of grown men spreading rumors about the others because they don't agree with their position. Get over it zee...it has gone on long enough. The only reason I can see someone aggressively "pointing out" or "exposing" people that may work for a company you dislike would be to cover your own tracks since they are the "competition".
LoL, yeah really. Just in case you don't know it, you (and a few others) constantly accuse a few members posting here of working for Fram just because they don't have anything good to say about Purolator. So maybe you should "get over it", meaning you should accept that people will bad mouth a product that is inferior and is prone to failure. That's just how it works ... people don't want to use a product that has known problems, and obviously Purolator has problems right now. And as I've said a few times, IF they can get their act back together and prove to the consumer that things are fixed and back on track, THEN people might start using their products again. Many companies over the years have vaporized due to the lack of quality/value in their products. Trying to sell defective products is the first step to derailment.
I hope Purolator does open their eyes and focus on issues that are obviously being seen by the consumer. If they don't they will wither away and vaporize with time. I know how this should be handled internally by a company that designs and manufactures products, and so far I haven't seen much indication that anything is going on except for this post that HangFire has posted - which many here appreciate. So, time will tell if Purolator can pull this one out or not.
How many filters didn't that rant get you? Or is it based on a point system?
How about that Fram Ultra? I hear that is a real rock catcher.....
My Free Fram Ultra Offer was based on five posts against Purolator gets me one Fram Ultra. I have enough now, but I will still keep at it. I plan on selling the extras. Maybe I'll buy a new car soon with the money. I won't be using a Tearolator on it for sure. Fram Ultra goes on immediately. They haven't done a thing to fix the Tearolator Tearing Problem, TTP for short. Meanwhile a dollar or so more buys you a world class synthetic media with a stainless steel screen behind it. The Monarch of oil filters, the Fram Ultra.
Wow. The Purohaters getting worried they'll lose their raison d'etre when the problem actually gets fixed?
And before anyone cries "shill," I'm running exactly ZERO Purolator products on any of my 6 vehicles at the moment. Reasoned caution is one thing, frothing at the mouth (accusing Purolator of duplicity in communicating with the OP, to be precise) is another entirely.
And before anyone cries "shill," I'm running exactly ZERO Purolator products on any of my 6 vehicles at the moment. Reasoned caution is one thing, frothing at the mouth (accusing Purolator of duplicity in communicating with the OP, to be precise) is another entirely.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Wow. The Purohaters getting worried they'll lose their raison d'etre when the problem actually gets
Yeah, dang raisin eaters anyway, always a bad attitude. You'd think they'd eat something else.
Let's all take a breath. In-out. In-out....
Wow. The Purohaters getting worried they'll lose their raison d'etre when the problem actually gets
Yeah, dang raisin eaters anyway, always a bad attitude. You'd think they'd eat something else.
Let's all take a breath. In-out. In-out....
Torn purolaters are the talk on just about every auto forum.. Most in the know stay away from them... pretty much like the OCOD
Imagine that....Engineering was not aware of the tears their own filters are famous for.. Now does anyone believe that??? If that is true why would anyone dream of ever using those filters again. I don't expect them to be 100% honest about it either but don't say they were clueless about all the tearing..It's everywhere they can't hide from the internet. I am finished with them i am now 95% wix at the shop and am currently using the ultra for the premium filter. We were buying purolater made filters for the shop for as long as i remember.. now we use a quality Wix product and a number of other shops did the same. By the end of the year between the shops we buy for it will be around 1200 Wix filters bought in place of the ones that tear.
I don't believe for one second they did not know because thats just silly!
I don't believe for one second they did not know because thats just silly!
It is somewhat encouraging that they are being open with you about it, though I suspect that will end when it comes to light you've posted it on the internet.
At any rate, they must be have done some investigation for the director of engineering to be committed to change the media.
It would be more encouraging if they were here answering some questions.
At any rate, they must be have done some investigation for the director of engineering to be committed to change the media.
It would be more encouraging if they were here answering some questions.
Being realistic, from Purolator's viewpoint, a little tear in an oil filter is not something most owners will even know is happening. It will just cause a slight amount of additional engine wear, invisible to people. So what incentive would they have to fix it?
From a greedy business viewpoint (profit is king), they are doing the right thing in weakly addressing this issue. Doing nothing here is better for their bottom line. Admitting they have a problem and putting on --- god forbid ---- thicker filter media and proper pleat spacing would just tick off past consumers who used their product. Silence and obfuscation is their friend here.
From a greedy business viewpoint (profit is king), they are doing the right thing in weakly addressing this issue. Doing nothing here is better for their bottom line. Admitting they have a problem and putting on --- god forbid ---- thicker filter media and proper pleat spacing would just tick off past consumers who used their product. Silence and obfuscation is their friend here.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Being realistic, from Purolator's viewpoint, a little tear in an oil filter is not something most owners will even know is happening. It will just cause a slight amount of additional engine wear, invisible to people. So what incentive would they have to fix it?
From a greedy business viewpoint (profit is king), they are doing the right thing in weakly addressing this issue. Doing nothing here is better for their bottom line. Admitting they have a problem and putting on --- god forbid ---- thicker filter media and proper pleat spacing would just tick off past consumers who used their product. Silence and obfuscation is their friend here.
+1. Outside of the OCD folks at BITOG who actually dissect them after use, millions of people use the filters day in and day out. They probably have more failures, never get cut open, and nobody is the wiser.
Being realistic, from Purolator's viewpoint, a little tear in an oil filter is not something most owners will even know is happening. It will just cause a slight amount of additional engine wear, invisible to people. So what incentive would they have to fix it?
From a greedy business viewpoint (profit is king), they are doing the right thing in weakly addressing this issue. Doing nothing here is better for their bottom line. Admitting they have a problem and putting on --- god forbid ---- thicker filter media and proper pleat spacing would just tick off past consumers who used their product. Silence and obfuscation is their friend here.
+1. Outside of the OCD folks at BITOG who actually dissect them after use, millions of people use the filters day in and day out. They probably have more failures, never get cut open, and nobody is the wiser.
And that's why I'm thankful each time someone opens up a filter here, no matter what it is.
China filters dont seem to be as bad as those in my book
Yes, we've seen some very nice looking Chinese filters here. The argument has always been that their media might not have great efficiency. That's certainly possible. I do know, however, that torn media won't leave up to its specifications, either. Perhaps the Chinese can sell Purolator some media.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
That is presumptuous pandering and most engineers would tell you that. Unless some specific engineer is getting paid, they are not hanging out on end user forum boards by practice. Let alone acting upon those who hack open their product and act upon that.
Most engineers and engineering departments that follow an ISO 9001 root cause, corrective action (RCCA) process, will have defined process on how they investigate and act upon presented quality defects. Most times the process has to back channel up through end users making claim of defect directly or indirectly through the repair shops they use. Not, some internet board by end users playing "engineer" after the fact.
... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
That is presumptuous pandering and most engineers would tell you that. Unless some specific engineer is getting paid, they are not hanging out on end user forum boards by practice. Let alone acting upon those who hack open their product and act upon that.
Most engineers and engineering departments that follow an ISO 9001 root cause, corrective action (RCCA) process, will have defined process on how they investigate and act upon presented quality defects. Most times the process has to back channel up through end users making claim of defect directly or indirectly through the repair shops they use. Not, some internet board by end users playing "engineer" after the fact.
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
That is presumptuous pandering and most engineers would tell you that. Unless some specific engineer is getting paid, they are not hanging out on end user forum boards by practice. Let alone acting upon those who hack open their product and act upon that.
Most engineers and engineering departments that follow an ISO 9001 root cause, corrective action (RCCA) process, will have defined process on how they investigate and act upon presented quality defects. Most times the process has to back channel up through end users making claim of defect directly or indirectly through the repair shops they use. Not, some internet board by end users playing "engineer" after the fact.
someone please sticky this post or at least chisel it in granite, the amount of redneck nonsense going on in the oil filter forums is criminal.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
That is presumptuous pandering and most engineers would tell you that. Unless some specific engineer is getting paid, they are not hanging out on end user forum boards by practice. Let alone acting upon those who hack open their product and act upon that.
Most engineers and engineering departments that follow an ISO 9001 root cause, corrective action (RCCA) process, will have defined process on how they investigate and act upon presented quality defects. Most times the process has to back channel up through end users making claim of defect directly or indirectly through the repair shops they use. Not, some internet board by end users playing "engineer" after the fact.
someone please sticky this post or at least chisel it in granite, the amount of redneck nonsense going on in the oil filter forums is criminal.
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
That is presumptuous pandering and most engineers would tell you that. Unless some specific engineer is getting paid, they are not hanging out on end user forum boards by practice. Let alone acting upon those who hack open their product and act upon that.
Most engineers and engineering departments that follow an ISO 9001 root cause, corrective action (RCCA) process, will have defined process on how they investigate and act upon presented quality defects. Most times the process has to back channel up through end users making claim of defect directly or indirectly through the repair shops they use. Not, some internet board by end users playing "engineer" after the fact.
Thank you for all the ISO 9001, with the bonus of the 'RCCA' acronym. Our lives are richer because of that. Sarcasm off now.... Common sense says they might sample oil filters in the field regualarly to see how they are holding up. (Sorry, I don't have an acronym for Common Sense... oh, wait, its "CS".) So, with CS objectives, they could do better here. Yet, when you read old posts, Purolator claims they never sample used oil filters in the field. Strange business practices.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... BUT it's their Engineers who should have their finger on the pulse of chat boards like this to see what's going on with their products.
That is presumptuous pandering and most engineers would tell you that. Unless some specific engineer is getting paid, they are not hanging out on end user forum boards by practice. Let alone acting upon those who hack open their product and act upon that.
Most engineers and engineering departments that follow an ISO 9001 root cause, corrective action (RCCA) process, will have defined process on how they investigate and act upon presented quality defects. Most times the process has to back channel up through end users making claim of defect directly or indirectly through the repair shops they use. Not, some internet board by end users playing "engineer" after the fact.
Thank you for all the ISO 9001, with the bonus of the 'RCCA' acronym. Our lives are richer because of that. Sarcasm off now.... Common sense says they might sample oil filters in the field regualarly to see how they are holding up. (Sorry, I don't have an acronym for Common Sense... oh, wait, its "CS".) So, with CS objectives, they could do better here. Yet, when you read old posts, Purolator claims they never sample used oil filters in the field. Strange business practices.
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Thank you for all the ISO 9001, with the bonus of the 'RCCA' acronym. Our lives are richer because of that. Sarcasm off now.... Common sense says they might sample oil filters in the field regualarly to see how they are holding up. (Sorry, I don't have an acronym for Common Sense... oh, wait, its "CS".) So, with CS objectives, they could do better here. Yet, when you read old posts, Purolator claims they never sample used oil filters in the field. Strange business practices.
Listen, mock what you want, but the ignorance of engineering processes is strong in this thread. Rather than mocking the $5 dollar words you do not wish to understand, try stepping up to their level of where an engineer is coming from. Then again, that will negate the bombastic armchair quarterbacking this forum so loves.
Thank you for all the ISO 9001, with the bonus of the 'RCCA' acronym. Our lives are richer because of that. Sarcasm off now.... Common sense says they might sample oil filters in the field regualarly to see how they are holding up. (Sorry, I don't have an acronym for Common Sense... oh, wait, its "CS".) So, with CS objectives, they could do better here. Yet, when you read old posts, Purolator claims they never sample used oil filters in the field. Strange business practices.
Listen, mock what you want, but the ignorance of engineering processes is strong in this thread. Rather than mocking the $5 dollar words you do not wish to understand, try stepping up to their level of where an engineer is coming from. Then again, that will negate the bombastic armchair quarterbacking this forum so loves.
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