Prudent maintenance or a waste of time?

[rationull]

I just hit 60k miles in my 07 Civic and I feel like I should give it some extra maintenance; the two things that come to mind are changing out the MTF and adjusting the valves. The car has an OLM which (in addition to oil changes) covers basically every maintenance item the car needs so I'm not sure exactly what mileage is recommended for these, but for the 2005 Civic (before the Maintenance Minder) the recommendations are as follows:

MTF: 120k normal, 60k miles severe
Valve adjustment: 110k miles

My usage falls somewhere between normal and severe (just like everyone else!) but the MTF change is trivial enough that I figure I might as well just do it this weekend. I'm more conflicted about the valve adjustment. I've done one before, but it was several years ago and I'm a little more apprehensive about it. I am willing to do it (and I've got a lingering hope that it'll smooth out my idle a little) but it's going to be enough of a job for me that I don't want to do it yet if it's not necessary.

So that's my question: 120k miles sounds like too long for an MTF run to me. Is 110k miles a legitimate interval for valve clearance inspection and adjustment or should I go ahead and do it? Any experience with Hondas that point to how likely it is they're out of adjustment at this point?

The car's got the good old screw and lock nut style valves (if it were a shim/bucket design I wouldn't even be considering this -- too bad it doesn't have hydraulic lifters).

 

[mechanicx]

I would probably pass on the valve adjustment for now. From what I hear they usually don't need adjusted in less than 100k miles if then. And I think Honda is now saying to only adjusted them if "valves are noisy". Although I'm not sure how that addresses when valve clearance has tightened up which also sometimes happens.

I agree with your plan to just change the MTF now and under the severe service schedule of previous models. I dislike the Maintenance Monitor when they don't list service intervals ahead of time. Besides there's are other service you could focus on like a brake fluid flush, power steering flush etc that would probably give you more benefit than adjusting the valves.

 

[JHZR2]

I'd go for swapping MTL and other fluids (coolant, brake fluid, etc.).

Valves, maybe... on my diesels they recommend 20k-ish intervals for checking them, and generally maybe one or two need adjustment. This is on a far older-tech engine, and a diesel. If the OM says no big deal and dont do it, I'd probably wait in the interest of time unless they are known to tighten up prematurely... I'd at least wait until I was doing sparkplugs or similar, and wanted to replace the gaskets...

 

[rpn453]

I'd definitely do the MTF. I'd likely have even done the first one within a year of getting the car! 60k miles is a common manufacturer's recommended interval for transmission oil and it's cheap and easy to do.

I've never played with valves, so I don't know how well they tend to stay within spec. All I can say is that I didn't plan on doing mine at 60k!

 

[HTSS_TR]

I agree with the above posts, swapping all other fluids too: engine oil, coolant, brake, differential, power steering, clutch ... is a good recommendation.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: rationull
(-- too bad it doesn't have hydraulic lifters).


I don't get why Japanese makes are so stuck on using mechanical followers either. Even if they don't need adjusted but every 100k or whatever it still is somewhat of an unnecessary nusiance IMO. Domestics have been using hydraulics for over 60 years and they are very reliable even in their OHC engines. I think a lot Euro engines use hydraulic too. If Honda would get rid of mech followers (the timing belt on their V6) and get rid of all the propietary fluid requirements, that would go a long way to endearing me to buying them.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Not a waste of time.

Last year, I checked and adjusted the valves on our 2002 Civic (D17A2 engine), which had only about 55,000 miles at the time. About half of the valves were at the edges of the tolerance, and a couple were outside the spec.

It didn't seem systematic to me at all--some were too close while others were too wide. I figure it was sloppy manufacturing.

I adjusted all of the valves to the middle of the specified clearance range. Also, I reused all the gaskets and the engine didn't spring any leaks.

 

[JOD]

I'd say yes to both. The transmission fluid is easy to drain/fill and, as has been beaten to death, the Z-1 isn't the most robust fluid. Honda's new DW-1 is supposedly a full synthetic fluid and is compatible with your Civic , so I'd probably do a 3X drain/fill with that stuff.

As far as the valve adjustment, all I can say is that when I adjusted a CR-V @ 60K, the exhaust valves had all tightened up considerably, and a couple of the intake valves needed adjusted as well. At a minimum, I'd pull the valve cover and at least check the adjustment.

This was on the K24 engine, but I suspect it's just as easy on the Civic engine.

 

[Brons2]

Valve adjustment on the Hondas I have owned was pretty easy, just a flat feeler gauge, a screwdriver, and a box wrench.

I would do both items, it's worthwhile for peace of mind.

Don't know about K series engines but on the B engines you want to adjust the exhaust valves on the looser side of the tolerances as they will tighten themselves over time.

 

[KrisZ]

I think that maintenance, even when done more frequently than recommended, is never a waste of time, especially if you DIY.

Changing parts that are working fine as part of maintenance, just because it is a cheap insurance, is a waste of time and money IMO. Something that I find more and more people, even on this board, recommend. I guess cheap Chinese parts are the cause for such rationality.

 

[mechtech2]

The valves were probably never adjusted.
Checking and adjusting them is wise.
If they are the shimmed bucket type, it may be a big deal, and not worth pursuing yet. The screw/locknut type are easy to adjust.
But at least check should be done, with the clearances marked down [and at what temperature!].

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: JOD
The transmission fluid is easy to drain/fill and, as has been beaten to death, the Z-1 isn't the most robust fluid. Honda's new DW-1 is supposedly a full synthetic fluid and is compatible with your Civic , so I'd probably do a 3X drain/fill with that stuff.


It's an MT, so Z-1's weakness isn't a concern. It's basically the same easy job though. I am going to refill with Honda MTF.


Originally Posted By: mechtech2

But at least check should be done, with the clearances marked down [and at what temperature!].


Temperature is a good thing to think about. The service manual has a spec'd temp range. I think it'll work out well to do this in the "winter".

At any rate sounds like it is worth checking at least.

 

[rationull]

I went ahead and did both of these -- changed the MTF last weekend and checked the valves this weekend. "Checked" instead of "adjusted" because it turns out none of them were actually out of spec! I don't have an experienced hand when it comes to measuring valve clearance but I'm pretty confident I wasn't too far off. The spec provides a range of 3 thousandths of an inch and nearly all the valves were smack in the middle of the range -- 3 or so were on the loose side but still in spec so I didn't want to mess with them. I was both surprised and impressed -- it makes me think that the ~100k adjustment interval might not be pure [censored] geared to lowering cost of ownership like I was kind of assuming it was.

I posted photos of under the valve cover and of the spark plugs at 60k miles over in the photo section (link). It was very clean under there - no discoloration or varnish that I could see.

MTF change was a good thing too. I wasn't sure at first but I think I can feel the difference, particularly shifting into first at a stop.

 

[mechtech2]

Your valves will probably stay good for another 50k or so -maybe much longer.
They are lightly loaded and oils are good now.

I like dead cold engine valve adjustments. You KNOW it is consistent. Hot and intermediate temperatures are the worst, as the parts are cooling and changing rapidly

 

[Kestas]

30 years ago Chrysler recommended adjusting 1.7L valve lash at 30K, or something to that effect, and nothing from then on. The engineers at Chrysler told me this procedure was basically to inspect the valvetrain for any horrible wear and to make sure break-in was good.

 

[iluvhonda]

the general consensus here is go ahead and adjust those valves.
do all your fluids. honda blue coolant and does everyone who owns a honda use their dot3 fluid? and do the 2007 civic still use a power steering pump? i know the Si's use a electric power steering box.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: iluvhonda
the general consensus here is go ahead and adjust those valves.
do all your fluids. honda blue coolant and does everyone who owns a honda use their dot3 fluid? and do the 2007 civic still use a power steering pump? i know the Si's use a electric power steering box.


I did a partial PSF drain/fill (from the reservoir) as well. I already flushed the brake fluid (at least partially) and exchanged some clutch fluid a few months ago. That just leaves the coolant, but the recommendation for that is 10 yrs/100k miles and I don't see much reason to do it quite yet.

The "normal" Civics (not SI, not hybrid) still have fully hydraulic power steering systems.

When messing with the brake fluid I did use the Honda stuff. Other than the coolant the Honda branded fluids are cheap enough that I'm going to use it over aftermarket stuff (other than motor oil, of course). Even the coolant's cheap enough online.

 

[Dave Hess]

I got the same exact car (2007 Civic EX - 5 speed trans) and I changed the original MTF at 60K miles and it was much smoother with new fluid. Honda MTF thins out pretty quick even if you don't drive the car that hard. I would skip the valve adjustment at 110K miles and maybe do it at 130-140K miles.

For my oil changes I do.
10K on synthetic (new oil filter)
5K on dino....then another
5K on dino.

I do an entire 20K miles on an oversized Purolator L-24458 filter.

 

[PandaBear]

At 180K, most of my valves were still within spec. Most of those that are out of spec are probably not adjusted correctly to begin with, or they were loosen over time, rather than worn.

Even if they are out of spec by a little, it would probably be fine other than a little bit of noise. Still, doesn't hurt to check every time you open up the valve cover.

 

[VNTS]

Agree, [censored] pathetic in this day and age having to adjust valves, that went out in the 50's for most OEM's.

With hydralic roller cams, absolutly no need. But I guess it is progres for Honda, I cant tell you how many Honda cams in lates 70's and 80's I changed due to the lobes wearing on the POS CVCC engines LOL

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: rationull
(-- too bad it doesn't have hydraulic lifters).


I don't get why Japanese makes are so stuck on using mechanical followers either. Even if they don't need adjusted but every 100k or whatever it still is somewhat of an unnecessary nusiance IMO. Domestics have been using hydraulics for over 60 years and they are very reliable even in their OHC engines. I think a lot Euro engines use hydraulic too. If Honda would get rid of mech followers (the timing belt on their V6) and get rid of all the propietary fluid requirements, that would go a long way to endearing me to buying them.