Proof that Mobil 1 has slipped !

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: tig1
Of course it doesn't prove anything. During this same period, in fact a friend has gone 270K on M1 5-30,including all the miles put on his 99 Silverado with 15K OCIs. His engine still is very sound, doesn't use any more oil than when new, and is still very quite. Even 6PPM is high by some opinions.



Ah ...Tig

You know darn well that if the data had gone the other way ...hmmmmm..you would be sayin' "Thar! See! M1 ..the best that ever was!! Always has been, always will be".

C'mon ..fess up

I don't really comment on UOAs that much because I don't put much stock in their accuracy. On the same sample differant oil analizers often can come to very much differant conclusions,so UOAs are more conversation data than anything else. With a few exceptions. I have defended Amsoil, PP, and others from the, this oil is junk because a UOA says so remarks on several occasions.

Save your UOA money and just change oil is my opinion.

 

[jstutz]

also, just curious, but on the last three high Pb results with M1, you didnt happen to burn up the track or anything that would make them stand out? It does look curious that three in a row were higher then dropped after the change. It would really be interesting to see a few more UOAs with edge just to confirm the trend.

 

[daman]

I'm not fond with the regular flavor 5w30, M1 has better built oil's IMO, if this was AFE or 530/1030HM i'd wager things would have been better but no proof on that.
Originally Posted By: jstutz
also, just curious, but on the last three high Pb results with M1, you didnt happen to burn up the track or anything that would make them stand out? It does look curious that three in a row were higher then dropped after the change. It would really be interesting to see a few more UOAs with edge just to confirm the trend.

i agree

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Originally Posted By: tig1
Of course it doesn't prove anything. During this same period, in fact a friend has gone 270K on M1 5-30,including all the miles put on his 99 Silverado with 15K OCIs. His engine still is very sound, doesn't use any more oil than when new, and is still very quite. Even 6PPM is high by some opinions.


Hey, your "Of course it doesn't prove anything." is completely without basis. You then cite another vehicle! I didn't say Mobil 1 is BAD and will destroy your engine ! I said it has slipped ! It used to be better. The fact that my engine returned to lower lead numbers after switching to Castrol Edge IS SIGNIFICANT !

Now, the iron numbers were the same, so Mobil 1 is doing a good job here.

My car has always used only a 1/4 to 1/2 quart of oil in 6,000 miles, so Mobil 1 is good oil.

You disappointed me with a baseless statement.


I don't view it as a bassless statement. Any single engine may have problems when thousands of others won't. So you can't say the oil the single engine used is slipping because of that one bad engine. A friend bought a new 72 MB diesel like the one that went 1,200.000 miles but it self destructed at 40K. Well that doesn't mean the oil was inferior in that one MB engine. Just because your Vette engine is showing what some call high wear #s doesn;t mean all of them do, even with the same oil. Thousands of Vettes have many more miles on them than yours but you don't hear of engine problems with M1 5-30.

 

[Corvette Owner]

Originally Posted By: jstutz
also, just curious, but on the last three high Pb results with M1, you didnt happen to burn up the track or anything that would make them stand out? It does look curious that three in a row were higher then dropped after the change. It would really be interesting to see a few more UOAs with edge just to confirm the trend.


Nope, no change in driving other than I retired in 2005 and now do shorter trips with the car. I am an easy driver, rarely going over 3500-4000 rpms. Some have suggested that I might lug the car, but I read the owner's manual and keep rpms above 900-1100 rpms.

I will do more UOAs with Castrol Edge. I also am changing my other cars to PP.

 

[daman]

You can still load the bearings at 3-4,000 if your in top gear vs say second.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Originally Posted By: tig1
Of course it doesn't prove anything. During this same period, in fact a friend has gone 270K on M1 5-30,including all the miles put on his 99 Silverado with 15K OCIs. His engine still is very sound, doesn't use any more oil than when new, and is still very quite. Even 6PPM is high by some opinions.


Hey, your "Of course it doesn't prove anything." is completely without basis. You then cite another vehicle! I didn't say Mobil 1 is BAD and will destroy your engine ! I said it has slipped ! It used to be better. The fact that my engine returned to lower lead numbers after switching to Castrol Edge IS SIGNIFICANT !

Now, the iron numbers were the same, so Mobil 1 is doing a good job here.

My car has always used only a 1/4 to 1/2 quart of oil in 6,000 miles, so Mobil 1 is good oil.

You disappointed me with a baseless statement.


I don't view it as a bassless statement. Any single engine may have problems when thousands of others won't. So you can't say the oil the single engine used is slipping because of that one bad engine. A friend bought a new 72 MB diesel like the one that went 1,200.000 miles but it self destructed at 40K. Well that doesn't mean the oil was inferior in that one MB engine. Just because your Vette engine is showing what some call high wear #s doesn;t mean all of them do, even with the same oil. Thousands of Vettes have many more miles on them than yours but you don't hear of engine problems with M1 5-30.


So wait, let me get this straight. You are saying his engine is bad and was getting worse. Then, all of a sudden, miraculously, his engine is fixed when he just HAPPENED to switch to Castrol Edge. I don't buy that argument one bit. It is grasping at straws. I'm not personally a huge fan of Mobil 1, but at the same time I haven't ever, and won't ever, bash it.

 

[tig1]

I really don't blame you for trying another oil with the results you are seeing. I would try a differant wt or formulation myself. But with your one example I also don't see where you can say M1 5-30 has slipped because of your UOA. I hope these lead numbers are meanindless as for the long term edurance of your Vette engine.

 

[hardcore302]

Interesting
Hmm

 

[nooil]

Well, maybe when mobil comes out with Mobil 2 the iron thing will be better

 

[Corvette Owner]

WELL, Castrol Edge advertises that they create 8 times less wear than Mobil 1.

I tested it and got at least 3 times less wear (lead ppm numbers) using UOA.

Pretty straight forward and conclusive.

I will do additional UOA in the future, but I don't test every oil change.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: nooil
Well, maybe when mobil comes out with Mobil 2 the iron thing will be better


No mobil 2 is the used mobil 1 that was dumped into another car because it was only driven 3k miles.

The next stuff will be mobil 0.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Originally Posted By: nooil
Well, maybe when mobil comes out with Mobil 2 the iron thing will be better


No mobil 2 is the used mobil 1 that was dumped into another car because it was only driven 3k miles.

The next stuff will be mobil 0.


My buddy Gene is the one that coined the phrase" Mobil 2" as he used my 10K M1 in his 78 Chevy for 4 years! He would ask me for more M2.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
I will do additional UOA in the future, but I don't test every oil change.

It looks like you came close with the M1 why not get a good pattern going with the edge? it may show something up you dont like.

one UOA is hardly enough to throw in the towel and fully convert. UOA's are not for jugging engine wear like all seem to say.

 

[cchase]

Foot in mouth on my previous post.

Still, I find it odd that lead would have been as high as it was previously, Mobil 1 or not. Those are some high lead readings for a properly operating engine on any main-stream oil.

I'm wondering how many more times the word "lead" could have been mentioned in the original post that I would have gotten it. I think I saw the numbers (ppm) and assumed iron because they were so high and ignored reality.

 

[cchase]

Come to think of it, your "incorrect" or (to put it better) "inconsistent" sampling procedure alone could account for the difference. Lead is heavy and would likely come out early in the drain (at least hypothetically).

I'm not trying to defend M1, but something else here is at work, in my opinion. The sampling procedure alone throws a huge wildcard into the mix.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Foot in mouth on my previous post.

Still, I find it odd that lead would have been as high as it was previously, Mobil 1 or not. Those are some high lead readings for a properly operating engine on any main-stream oil.

I'm wondering how many more times the word "lead" could have been mentioned in the original post that I would have gotten it. I think I saw the numbers (ppm) and assumed iron because they were so high and ignored reality.


With all this high metals talk I checked BITOGs "oil analysis" article and it shows you metal numbers are very low. For example normal lead #s are 40-100 PPM. Normal iron #s are 100 to 200 PPM.

Here is the link.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index....0&Itemid=56

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Come to think of it, your "incorrect" or (to put it better) "inconsistent" sampling procedure alone could account for the difference. Lead is heavy and would likely come out early in the drain (at least hypothetically).

I'm not trying to defend M1, but something else here is at work, in my opinion. The sampling procedure alone throws a huge wildcard into the mix.


I would think that the tiny lead particles would be in complete suspension, and wouldn't sink to the bottom. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Corvette Owner]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Come to think of it, your "incorrect" or (to put it better) "inconsistent" sampling procedure alone could account for the difference. Lead is heavy and would likely come out early in the drain (at least hypothetically).

I'm not trying to defend M1, but something else here is at work, in my opinion. The sampling procedure alone throws a huge wildcard into the mix.


I agree, BUT don't you think if there was a lot of lead, it would fall to the bottom of the oil pan? My sample was taken by raising the back of the car and draining the oil at the bottom of the oil pan! C5 Corvettes (1997-2004) use a oil pan with "bat wings" on the side (to prevent oil starvation during hard cornering), making a large bottom surface.

I predict that the next Castrol Edge UOA will be EVEN BETTER than 3 times less lead, when I sample correctly.

Additionally, iron is relatively heavy also, and the iron numbers were the same for Mobil and Castrol.

 

[biodiesel]

This info doesn't really surprise me. IMO they have been slipping for years.

I'm looking forward to seeing future UOAs to see if this trend continues.