PRIME GUARD POF-241 NEW FILTER CUT OPEN
- Thread starter 53' Stude
- Start date
Very nice. Thank you
Nice one, Adam-those fiber endcaps look pretty beefy! Maybe Fram should take notes on these, especially when they're a fair amount cheaper at RK than the PH Extra Guards.
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Thanks for sharing. Like what I’m seeing stout clean filter looks well enough to go on my vehicles
Great eye ZeeOSix. It looks like they're waiting too long to change out the die. There is also small tears on the perimeter of the center threaded hole, perhaps the material is too thin?It's efficiency is low, but it's got a great paint job and straight pleats.
I'm having difficulty understanding how the media is glued to the endcaps.
Looks like it's bonded somehow (heat + pressure ??), similar to how early Champ Labs built filters with felt end caps used. You can see the ends of the pleat in this shot.
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Yes, that is what I commented about in an earlier post above, using the same pic.
It appears that the media is not glued to an end cap, but, rather, the dried glue actually is the end cap!
If that's the case (and assuming the dried glue remains strong over the life of the filter), that means there is no need to worry about adhesion of media to the end cap because the adhesive actually is the endcap.
JHZR2
Staff member
Made in China. Not sure I’d have spent the $ for the filter.
I'm not sure there is any glue. I think the two materials are basically bonded together by heat and pressure (melted together). The early Champ Labs filters using similar construction often showed that the bond would let go (debond) during use. The Champ Labs filters using this method had much thinner end caps than this one has.
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Yes-- the heat-bonded material is what I meant since that could be considered to be a "glue."
Regardless of the semantics, I think we're saying the same thing. And it seems to me like a really cool and innovative way to handle the "how do we best attach the media to the endcap" problem.
They just use a meltable endcap material, stick the media in it when it is melted, and when it cools and solidifies, it becomes the endcap with the media embedded in it.
Assuming the solidified material remains strong and functional for the life of the filter, this is a brilliant solution, no?
Only if it's robust enough to do the job. Like mentioned above, some of the Champ Labs using this "bonded fiber end cap" design did show failures (debonded from the pleat ends) from use - photos posted here in this forum. That was a while ago, so maybe the process as been improved since then.
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Agree-- there have been bonding failure problems (such as what you cite), questions as to whether bonding/gluing filter media to a metal or fiber endcap is stronger, and whether a fiber endcap is robust enough (going back to the OCOD days).
It seems this method has the potential to make the all the bonding questions moot, leaving only robustness question to be answered.
If that final question is answered in the affirmative, then it seems to me that this is a major advance in filter technology!
If I had a choice between the pleats being glued to the fiber end cap (like what Fram uses on the EG and TG) compared to this bonded end cap design without any glue, then I'd take the Fram glued design. Frams with the fiber end caps haven't really shown any problems in keeping the end cap bonded to the pleat ends that I've seen posted here.
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Interesting! I and others (e.g., Bellavita) agree with you that fiber endcaps are likely better than metal for bonding media and show no signs of lacking robustness. 20 years ago, at the height of the OCOD panic, I was very anti-fiber endcaps. Now I prefer them for this reason.
So, I don't disagree with you the EG and TG are good, but I really like the looks of this new system and will be watching for the results from usage. Seems to me that this design is going to be the wave of the future!
On the other hand, it's not a hill I'm going to die on. Who knows? It may turn out to be a really bad design. If so, I'm ok with the current options.
The only filters I've seen where the potting material used to bond the pleats to the metal end caps have shown a failure (know here as a "popped end cap") are Purolator made filters. Maybe they don't degrease or clean the metal end caps before bonding. Other brands don't seem to have a problem keeping the glue bonded to the metal end caps.
Didn't seem that when Champ Labs used this type of fiber end cap bonding method many years ago, others didn't really follow. However, when Champ Labs came out with the nylon eCore center tube (which had some early on issues too, due to large windows allowing media blow through), other companies have jumped onto the eCore bandwagon. But not so much on this no-glue bonded fiber end cap installation method.
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Oh, I didn't know this method had been used in the past. This is the first I've heard of it.
The hazards of my being a non-expert, I guess!
Carry on...
The hazards of my being a non-expert, I guess!
Carry on...
Yes, I mentioned it in another post in this thread. Champ Labs used this type of fiber end cap bond to the pleat ends many years ago - about the same time as when they came out with the eCore center tube. Except the fiber end cap was very thin, much thinner than the ones on this subject filter. The early on Champ Labs filters often showed signs of debonding after use (cut & posts by members here). But like I said, maybe the manufacturing process is better now in this method of attaching a fiber end cap to the pleats ... only monitoring after use filters will say one way or the other.
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I see-- sorry, I missed that!
The bonding of a thin fiber endcap to the media that you cite sounds different than the media is embedded directly in the endcap material which is what the current case looks like.
Probably I'm misunderstanding something.
But definitely learning!
Not sure how far the pleats are "embedded" into the end cap ... I'd have to have one of these in my hands to fully evaluate. Maybe @53' Stude can evaluate and add more info.
