I know you've made your purchase/install etc but FYI: Thru DECADES of buying "upgraded" Powerstop rotors, Stoptech rotors ECS 2pc rotors, slotted/vented rotors, $120 Hawk Pads, $100 EBC pads, Stop tech pads, Axxis metal masters when they were a thing for various vehicles I've long concluded: If you aren't racing or you aren't doing a big brake kit (larger rotors, larger more piston calipers) these low level upgrades are absolutely fruitless for any form of street driving (I've done em on every type of vehicle: VWs, DSMs, BMWs, Trucks etc). My truck now uses $90 a pair Autozone rotors, $30 a set on Amazon Wagner extreme duty pads for a grand total of $150 and there is no user notable gain in performance of longevity between that and $230/pr stoptech peformance rotors and $85 Hawk truck/SUV pads except the later will look better longer. I wouldn't recommend no name pads but there are a lot of reputable name brand pads that cost $30 online (for my truck Wagner, AC delco, Bosch and even Powerstop pads are $30 with extreme duty versions $5-10 more) and I have yet to use a rotor in oem size that made ANY difference than an OEM style replacement (I wouldn't use no name eBay type rotors but reputable cheap oem replacements). The BEST thing you can do is the install: clean rust off surfaces, install the new anti rattle/slide hardware, lube the contact areas for smooth long lasting squeak and warp free operation. You can buy $300 rotors and $150 pads that will squeak, warp etc if just thrown on without details.
Power Stop brakes on 2012 Sienna?
- Thread starter LeakySeals
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$50 site donor 2025
Have mainly used Wagner for replacement and they have lasted a long time.
I only ever had one vehicle and situation (small truck towing) where I felt the "needs improvement" application … drums in the rear and clearly the front brakes carried the load.
Tried EBC yellow … big improvement but dusty and rapid rotor wear.
Changed those rotors to slotted and used PowerStop truck/SUV pads … better than stock but not the bite those yellow dudes had. Sold the larger boat and towed the smaller boat just fine …
New Z71 has very strong brakes so OEM equivalents will be fine when the time comes …
I only ever had one vehicle and situation (small truck towing) where I felt the "needs improvement" application … drums in the rear and clearly the front brakes carried the load.
Tried EBC yellow … big improvement but dusty and rapid rotor wear.
Changed those rotors to slotted and used PowerStop truck/SUV pads … better than stock but not the bite those yellow dudes had. Sold the larger boat and towed the smaller boat just fine …
New Z71 has very strong brakes so OEM equivalents will be fine when the time comes …
I went with the Z17 option because of the Geomet coating. Heavy salt use because of the terrain. Hopefully that will help. But time will tell. I don't think it's a performance setup. Doing the front today.
Supton, reading your post I now remember why I've been so diligent with the Toyota. After 12-13 months the fronts start squeaking and I refresh the grease and it goes away. At the 18 months interval I was putting up with a lot of squeaking and finally got around to it. This is with ThermoQuiet pads, which supposedly don't require greasing the back (yeah, right.) The pads work and wear well but the quiet backing is a bust. OEM pads have SS shims on the pad backs, the TQ's do not. I have been greasing the ears and back with SilGlyde but last time I used Goodson PasteLub (2400F high solids Moly) and may just wait and see how long before the squeaks come back.
I just dug out the Honda Pilot FSM and they recommend lubing the pad backs and insides of the pad-back-shims with Honda M-77 "assembly lube" P/N 08798-9010 (which is a Moly Paste), but not where the shims contact the caliper or piston. The inner pad has two shims and they recommend lubing both sides of the middle shim. The middle shim has holes so it seems like it is designed to retain lube. It also helpfully says to wipe off excess and avoid getting lube on friction surfaces.
Obvious stuff but looking on Youtube and forums, it is clear that some people overdo the exposed grease.
The pins on the other hand, the FSM recommends grease P/N 08C30-B0234M, which is a crazy expensive Silicone grease... why I was using Sil-Glyde on the pins. https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-Silicone-Grease__08C30-B0234M.aspx
The more I think about it, my stuck pins episode, I think I just had a boot assembly error or boot failure. I'm going to stick with Sil-Glyde there and be more careful on reassembly.
The description of your not-so-great Sta-Lube includes PTFE. I would not use it on pad backs, because PTFE decomposes around 620F, which is very hot brakes but quite possible descending Mt Washington. It also has graphite and Moly, which are both good well beyond 600F. From poor long-term experience, I have recently stopped using Sil-Glyde on pad backs. Re-reading the FSM, I don't know why I ever used it on pad backs. I should have been using M-77 or an equivalent like PasteLub. Live and learn.
Since grease on the captured pins or slides is not optional, and you're already in there, I would suggest refreshing it completely each time using the same general type (moly or silicone) as your Factory Service Manual recommends. Pad back grease recommendations are complicated by the fact that pad-back-shims are often on OEM pads and often missing on aftermarket pads. They are also complicated by the fact your experience (which I do not doubt a bit) is exactly opposite of mine! But we do not drive the same vehicles in the same conditions with the same brand components.
I just dug out the Honda Pilot FSM and they recommend lubing the pad backs and insides of the pad-back-shims with Honda M-77 "assembly lube" P/N 08798-9010 (which is a Moly Paste), but not where the shims contact the caliper or piston. The inner pad has two shims and they recommend lubing both sides of the middle shim. The middle shim has holes so it seems like it is designed to retain lube. It also helpfully says to wipe off excess and avoid getting lube on friction surfaces.
The pins on the other hand, the FSM recommends grease P/N 08C30-B0234M, which is a crazy expensive Silicone grease... why I was using Sil-Glyde on the pins. https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-Silicone-Grease__08C30-B0234M.aspx
The more I think about it, my stuck pins episode, I think I just had a boot assembly error or boot failure. I'm going to stick with Sil-Glyde there and be more careful on reassembly.
The description of your not-so-great Sta-Lube includes PTFE. I would not use it on pad backs, because PTFE decomposes around 620F, which is very hot brakes but quite possible descending Mt Washington. It also has graphite and Moly, which are both good well beyond 600F. From poor long-term experience, I have recently stopped using Sil-Glyde on pad backs. Re-reading the FSM, I don't know why I ever used it on pad backs. I should have been using M-77 or an equivalent like PasteLub. Live and learn.
Since grease on the captured pins or slides is not optional, and you're already in there, I would suggest refreshing it completely each time using the same general type (moly or silicone) as your Factory Service Manual recommends. Pad back grease recommendations are complicated by the fact that pad-back-shims are often on OEM pads and often missing on aftermarket pads. They are also complicated by the fact your experience (which I do not doubt a bit) is exactly opposite of mine! But we do not drive the same vehicles in the same conditions with the same brand components.
Great summary by stanlee. Race oriented components only get useful when they are already hot, that is, race conditions. They often have poor performance on first use when cold, which is exactly when you need best performance on a street car. You don't get 3 warmup laps to get the tires and brakes up to temp. When you're cruising down the highway and a wheel comes bouncing across from the other side, you need all the braking you got, right now, with cold brakes.
Originally Posted by HangFire
Goodson PasteLub (2400F high solids Moly)
I discovered this stuff over 10 years ago. It is impervious to water absorption/wash off and only cost about $18 for a large tub. The liquid oil portion will eventually work its way out after quite a long time, leaving the moly solids, etc.. I only use it on exposed metal to metal brake areas, not rubber enclosed pins. It is a superb rust inhibitor on rotor hats, hubs, etc. - just a paper thin coat rubbed on will last years. Besides brakes, I use it on lots of exposed metal surfaces around the farm (gate hinges). It is made by this company in Switzerland: http://www.igralub.us/igralub/index.php?id=557
Goodson PasteLub (2400F high solids Moly)
I discovered this stuff over 10 years ago. It is impervious to water absorption/wash off and only cost about $18 for a large tub. The liquid oil portion will eventually work its way out after quite a long time, leaving the moly solids, etc.. I only use it on exposed metal to metal brake areas, not rubber enclosed pins. It is a superb rust inhibitor on rotor hats, hubs, etc. - just a paper thin coat rubbed on will last years. Besides brakes, I use it on lots of exposed metal surfaces around the farm (gate hinges). It is made by this company in Switzerland: http://www.igralub.us/igralub/index.php?id=557
Originally Posted by The Critic
The front brakes on the 11-17 Siennas are discussed in a somewhat recent TSB. Pulsation is a real issue on these. Toyota provided instructions to modify the wheel-well cover to increase air flow to the front rotors. The fix also involves a different part number for the pads which contains a revised pad compound to reduce the likelihood of premature pulsation issues (likely from pad deposits). The revised pads are over $100.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10084304-5448.pdf
Looking at it I don't see the point in leaving half of it on I'm just going to take it off unless someone has a good reason for me to put it back on
The front brakes on the 11-17 Siennas are discussed in a somewhat recent TSB. Pulsation is a real issue on these. Toyota provided instructions to modify the wheel-well cover to increase air flow to the front rotors. The fix also involves a different part number for the pads which contains a revised pad compound to reduce the likelihood of premature pulsation issues (likely from pad deposits). The revised pads are over $100.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10084304-5448.pdf
Looking at it I don't see the point in leaving half of it on I'm just going to take it off unless someone has a good reason for me to put it back on
Well this was disturbing. It just would not come off. Lubed it good. Then the rotor itself started cracking. I hope I didn't bend the hub.
Typical salt belt stuff, make sure you clean that hub spotless and check the run out, you may have to change those hubs if you cant get it in spec but you should be able get away with that one. Once you know its in spec use a thin coat of never seize on the face to prevent it rusting that bad again.
Clean the rear of the wheels well, this is especially true with alloys. This is often overlooked and is a major contributor to pulsation.
Clean the rear of the wheels well, this is especially true with alloys. This is often overlooked and is a major contributor to pulsation.
Ok I clean them up as best I could with some filing sandpaper and a hub cleaner tool that goes around the lug nuts. And now I'm marinating them in some corroseal.
The run out will be critical on this job lasting.
The corroseal took a while to set up. Cold here. A space heater helped. The caliper bolts were hard as a rock. Amazed the brakes functioned at all. Dealer grease was like tar. The runout was +-1k on both using a hf vice grip dial set. I had to move drivers side rotor around on hub a couple times to get it right. The lug nuts on that van made me uncomfortable torquing. Several were difficult to get a socket on. They seem beat up. I torqued all of them to 80. Because it was the closest notch on my clicker.
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
Looking at it I don't see the point in leaving half of it on I'm just going to take it off unless someone has a good reason for me to put it back on
It's an air dam, it provides a minor improvement in fuel economy at highway speeds. You'll probably never miss it.
I would keep it around for a few months, just in case there is an increase in wind noise.
Looking at it I don't see the point in leaving half of it on I'm just going to take it off unless someone has a good reason for me to put it back on
It's an air dam, it provides a minor improvement in fuel economy at highway speeds. You'll probably never miss it.
I would keep it around for a few months, just in case there is an increase in wind noise.
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
The lug nuts on that van made me uncomfortable torquing. Several were difficult to get a socket on. They seem beat up.
I looked this up and was surprised to find that Toyota used some solid, and some 2-piece lug nuts. The 2-piece get rust between the shiny cap and the steel nut and swell, thus it's hard to get a socket on them. After a while the pretty cap falls off and then you need 3 different sockets to take off a wheel (unswollen, swollen, and capless).
I suggest planning to replace them with a solid 1-piece lug nut like McGard, Gorilla, etc.
The lug nuts on that van made me uncomfortable torquing. Several were difficult to get a socket on. They seem beat up.
I looked this up and was surprised to find that Toyota used some solid, and some 2-piece lug nuts. The 2-piece get rust between the shiny cap and the steel nut and swell, thus it's hard to get a socket on them. After a while the pretty cap falls off and then you need 3 different sockets to take off a wheel (unswollen, swollen, and capless).
I suggest planning to replace them with a solid 1-piece lug nut like McGard, Gorilla, etc.
I did hear a squeal when he backed out of the driveway. He's only been out once. They haven't been bedded because of the weather.
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