Hey everyone! I love this forum, so I thought I'd join. I just bought a 2009 Pontiac Vibe GT (Matrix) with the u250e transmission spec'd for WS atf. The owners manual incorrectly states T-IV as the atf of choice, but there was a TSB correcting this. I may just be paranoid, but would I be able to tell if the wrong fluid is in there now? It shifts fine now, but I want to follow the service schedule as I drive about 6 hours a day in the city and I love this car. I seldom get some slip/jerk from 1st to 2nd and some engine braking when coasting before it up-shifts. Would I be fine to use WS or something better in the future regardless of what is in there now? The fluid is basically clear (slightly purple on a napkin) and has no smell. Car also has 168K. Any thoughts?
Possible wrong atf (T-IV instead of WS)
- Thread starter Jonas
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There's no way you could tell, especially with fluid that has been in the transmission a while.
What does the TBS say is the problem with using the other fluid?
What does the TBS say is the problem with using the other fluid?
I'm not sure, but I think GM just made a misprint because the Vibe tranny used T-IV up until 2008 and this one is a 2009. It also incorectly specified dexcool instead of the pink toyota coolant, but my coolant is indeed pink. Tranny dipstick says WS.
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New car, uncertain history... Just go ahead and change it so you have a baseline. Who knows what has been in there or how long it has been there.
Welcome!
The T-IV will probably work ok but it won't last as long as WS. The good news is that your Vibe has a drain plug, so changing the ATF is easy
Maxlife is a good quality synthetic ATF widely available at a great price that works wherever T-IV and WS are called for. Another good alternative is Castrol Full Synthetic ATF, when it's on sale.
The T-IV will probably work ok but it won't last as long as WS. The good news is that your Vibe has a drain plug, so changing the ATF is easy
Maxlife is a good quality synthetic ATF widely available at a great price that works wherever T-IV and WS are called for. Another good alternative is Castrol Full Synthetic ATF, when it's on sale.
As you mentioned above, the manual is wrong. My 2010 Vibe has bubblegum pink coolant, the dipstick (4 speed) says WS, and I think the oil cap is marked 5w or 0w-20.
I bought the car at about 30k miles and did a UOA on my first trans drain. It came back with high aluminum, so I did a few more pan drains and a filter change with WS and then started using Maxlife. With the drain plug, an ATF change is easier than an engine oil change.
I bought the car at about 30k miles and did a UOA on my first trans drain. It came back with high aluminum, so I did a few more pan drains and a filter change with WS and then started using Maxlife. With the drain plug, an ATF change is easier than an engine oil change.
You can mix fluids. You have no idea if it has WS, T-IV, Maxlife, or some private-labeled fluid in there that someone used with a full flush or drain-and-fill. What you can do is pick a good fluid, but ~10 quarts of it, and do a drain-and-fill now. In a month, repeat the drain-and-fill. In 2 months, repeat the drain-and-fill. In theory, you will have maybe 75% of 'new', good fluid. This is all theoretical or "math" (there's "calculators" out there you can use) but at the end of the day, what will then be in there will certainly be cleaner and fresher than what's in there today.
If you plan to do multiple pan drains, get a few crush washers for the plug. I was only able to reuse my stock one a couple times.
NAPA has thick washers like the Toyota pieces: ATM PB2403 fits the U341E. I'm not sure if yours would take the same part.
NAPA has thick washers like the Toyota pieces: ATM PB2403 fits the U341E. I'm not sure if yours would take the same part.
I would only use the ATF that my transmission called for. I would never use a universal ATF. Think about it. T-IV and WS are different fluids with different viscosities. How can there be a single ATF that meets both those different viscosities?
If you plan on keeping the car, get you some WS and do a few drain and fills. If you like, you can PM me and I have a spread sheet that calculates
the percentage of new ATF based on how many quarts you drain out each time. I will calculate it for you if you like. Please drain it cold and give me
the exact amount you removed. And hey, you can use whatever ATF you like. I'll still help if you if you need me to.
But on the other hand the viscosities do not have to match. If the reason one may be thinner than the other is strictly for fuel economy reasons then there is no reason a thicker fluid is unacceptable even if it isn't the one that is specified. Between the two mentioned I don't see any reason a multi-fluid such as Maxlife would be harmful.
I don’t think it would be “harmful“ either. So, if I’m following your logic, why shouldn’t he just leave the T-IV in and not worry about it?
I really appreciate it. I ordered 12 quarts of WS today. Also got some crush washers and a hex bit for the drain plug. Any torque spec I should know about on the drain plug (or oil drain plug for that matter)? Scotty Kilmer says "nice and tight" lol I'll report back
Local Toyota dealer used a universal fluid in our used tundra - I found the records after buying it. The universal was thicker than the WS it calls for. it drove just fine. However, I did three drain-fills with the low vis amsoil, suitable for WS duty and the shifting was far more precise with a proper fluid. I don’t think T-IV will cause it any harm, but it my be slightly more refined with the right stuff.
Toyota states that using T-IV in a WS application can result in slow engagement especially in cold weather and a MPG hit. WS in a T-IV application they claim “shift shock” and leakage at high temps.
MaxLife is the same viscosity as WS and most have have used it in a T-IV application with success, I don’t like the shifting of it in the T-IV applications I used it on. I’m sure a dealer somewhere is pumping in BG/MOC or MaxLife/Castrol IMV FS or other LV ATFs in out of warranty/customer pay jobs.
MaxLife is the same viscosity as WS and most have have used it in a T-IV application with success, I don’t like the shifting of it in the T-IV applications I used it on. I’m sure a dealer somewhere is pumping in BG/MOC or MaxLife/Castrol IMV FS or other LV ATFs in out of warranty/customer pay jobs.
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If that fluid was factory filled with WS, there is no way it would be clear or slightly purple at 168,000, so you know that fluid has been changed at some point...question is, with what? WS fluid from the factory gets VERY dark, very quickly. I have drained them at 50,000 miles and the fluid almost looks like used motor oil. I’ve seen them at 30,000 miles looking this way too. But once you’re past that initial factory fill it tends to hold its color quite well.
If it’s spec’d for WS why not just go with that? Chances are it already has WS in there (dark purple/plum color is what WS tends to look like when it’s mixed with factory fill, unless it’s really flushed out).
If it’s spec’d for WS why not just go with that? Chances are it already has WS in there (dark purple/plum color is what WS tends to look like when it’s mixed with factory fill, unless it’s really flushed out).
Well, I did my first ever drain and fill! Everything went according to plan. I replaced about 3.7 quarts (supposed to be the right amount to come out) of thick, dark gray/purple crap with the same amount of Aisin WS. Seems to shift about the same, but I noticed 1st to 2nd is a little quicker/softer. I tightened the drain plug about like I would an oil drain plug, firmly with a small socket wrench. I have enough fluid for two more drain/fills and I was thinking of doing them with each next oil change. Should I do them sooner than that? Also, the dipstick is extremely hard to read, but I put as close to the same amount of fluid that came out back in as I could tell. Anything else I need to know? I greatly appreciate all the advice!