Plumbing disaster.

[JTK]

My fun began when I started to evaluate my situation to hook up some water line tubing to an ice maker on a new refrigerator. A previous owner had one hooked up at some point given there was some mangled, coiled up 1/4" copper behind the fridge (planned not to use it). The copper dropped pretty much straight down to my water service in the basement below. A few feet downstream of my water meter, a PO installed one of those 1/4" clamp on valves, that was capped off, with the old copper dangling nearby. Before I disturbed anything, I figured I better see if my main isolation, upstream of the meter moves/works. I Gave this valve a couple of turns shut and.. PSSSSSSSSSSSS!! Water flying out of the packing nut.. Oh NO! I ran to my shop side of the basement, grabbed a pair of channel locks and a crescent wrench to tighten the packing nut. Before I even got ahold of it, I noticed the packing nut was crooked. Oh man.. Well... Gotta try something here. Gave it a gentle turn and it's not doing anything but spinning, but it did slow the leak substantially. Now it's just a rapid drip. I don't dare disturb it further.. Wonderful. My service is in sort of a cabinet built into the wall of the finished side of my basement. Wall to wall carpeting no less. Now what to do... Knowing the only way to repair/replace this valve is having the local water authority cut-off my water supply outside, my first call was to them. Then I called a local chain plumbing place I've dealt with before. Of course this was all at 5pm. Ugh.. The plumbing outfit showed up within 30min or so. Of course (like me) they couldn't locate my shut-off outside and there was nothing they could do until the supply was isolated. $79 for them to show up. About 8pm that night, a fella from the water authority showed up. Not only can he not locate my shut-off. He can't find the water line! Two different metal detectors and even dowsing rods at one point!! We knew were it came out of the house, but from there, no go.. He said they'd have to come back tomorrow with different detecting equipment and cut in a new shut-off if they can't locate the original. I was at work and the wife was home when they came back the next day. I have no idea what transpired, because apparently they don't communicate much with the public, but I came home to a brand-new shut-off cut into my asphalt driveway, rough filled with cold patch. I would have loved to see how they did it, why, etc.. Called the plumber, he came back that evening, killed the water and installed a new isolation. This is what a $287.10, 3/4", 1/4 turn ball-valve looks like. I've totally lost interest in the ice maker at this point. LOL. Sorry for the long-windedness. Just wanted to share my joy.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Is that a spicket before the meter?

 

[JHZR2]

Yikes! The house had no interior main shut-off??!? Even my parents, grandparents and my old, old early 1900s homes have those!

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

Yikes! The house had no interior main shut-off??!?

That's what failed...

 

[JTK]

Hose bib is downstream of the meter. Why one is there I have no idea. What you see to the left of the meter is the water supply coming through the basement wall (near the floor) and up 90deg to the new yellow handled ball-valve shut-off (interior isolation). The same location as the original leaking interior isolation. Funny thing is, none of this stuff is super old. My home was built in 1974 and was on well water until the 1980's. On top of that, all the water meters in my area were replaced 4yrs ago or so.

 

[williestreet]

At least your plumber was smart enough to put in a ball valve. Can't count the number of times I have seen similar problems and the plumber put in another gate valve to save a few bucks. Take a couple of measurements off the corners of your house to locate the curb stop and write them on the wall behind the water meter. I know you won't forget but if the home is sold and the drive gets paved again the new owner will be thankful.

 

[JTK]

Thanks Willie. Funny thing is, they didn't marker flag my water line location, except for what you see out by the road. I'd call to have it flagged for any digging/driveway work anyway, because my natural gas line runs real close. The water authority had the gas co mark out their line prior to them cutting in the new water isolation outside. I was actually concerned about the plumber using a sweat-on ball valve. The original gate style was swedge fit (sp?) at the supply end and attached to a 90deg gate valve to the meter. The plumber didn't have a replacement on the truck, so he cut-off the swedged on nut, and sweat on the ball valve and 90deg setup to the meter.

 

[Danno]

Originally Posted By: JTK

Hose bib is downstream of the meter. Why one is there I have no idea.

The hose bib allows you to drain the water out of the whole house. Let's say you go on vacation during cold weather and no one is home. House looses power/heat and the pipes freeze. This tends to reduce that risk.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: williestreet

At least your plumber was smart enough to put in a ball valve. Can't count the number of times I have seen similar problems and the plumber put in another gate valve to save a few bucks.

Indeed.

 

[sleddriver]

I'm a big believer in ball-valves. I recently replaced an aging, leaking gate valve used as a master shutoff to the backyard sprinkler system. I went to open it for the Spring and water began shooting out! I had to clamp it shut and turn off the water overnight until I could replace it. I did so with a ball valve. When the cold water heater was replaced, I added ball valves on both sides so it can be removed and the whole house doesn't have to be without water. When I rebuilt my water softener, I installed all new piping, with ball valves & unions, so I could bypass it, or remove it, all while leaving the house with running water. Toilet suppy lines....ball valves. Sink supply lines.....ball valves. Dishwasher............ball valves. Clothes washer........ball valves. Go BV's!

 

[Rand]

I thought the ball valve was only supposed to turn 90 degrees between closed and open?

 

[Donald]

I have a circuit breaker to shut off my well pump. Hard to beat that kind of water shutoff.

 

[dernp]

$287 a heck of a lot cheaper than a flooded basement. Cheap for piece of mind.

 

[zzyzzx]

I think you got a deal at only <span style="font-weight: bold">$287.10</span>, at least by around here prices. And they even soldered in the new valve. Around here when plumbers see copper pipe, they all use shark bites. It's as if they don't know how to solder. Seen it a lot in other people's houses, even in locations where one could easily solder.

 

[doitmyself]

I'm still in denial about the cost to hire trades people. In this case, $250 for labor, overhead, and expertise. I know it costs a lot to run a business (insurance, training, etc.), but this is why a lot of us wrench/saw/electrocute on our own.

 

[supton]

4hr of work, $250 labor, for someone who drives to you? Around $60/hr? Local garage charges that per hour--and you drop the car off for the day.

 

[doitmyself]

His bill probably is: 1 hour labor - $110, 1 hour drive time/service call - $110, and full msrp for a valve and a couple of fittings: $60. It's just the way it is. And, in these type of situations, an emergency, you just want it fixed. I accept it, but still am in denial about it! You pay for the convenience, expertise, and peace of mind. At least it hasn't reached the levels of hospital billing, but it's heading that way.

 

[rjundi]

From writing O & M manuals for water treament and waste water plants(soooooo boring) I learned to exercise the valves in my home. If they are shaky or old rusty I have the plumber do it if showing up for something else. Gate valves are awful when not used often.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

Ah, yes. This exact scenario happened to me in my first house 10 years ago. Go to close the gate valve BEFORE the meter, it failed closed. No leaking, but no water then either. $250 later at 6pm on a Friday night, I also had a nice new ball valve just like yours. At least the guy who came out had a street key and found the shutoff before it got dark.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself

His bill probably is: 1 hour labor - $110, 1 hour drive time/service call - $110, and full msrp for a valve and a couple of fittings: $60.

Yeah, it could have been much more painful. This outfit is quick, very neat, polite and straight forward. They quote you a price and you sign off on it before the job starts. Minimum is $79 for the service/travel fee. So my bill was $79 $185 for parts/labor $23.10 sales tax. 2yr guarantee on parts/labor. Start to finish he was at my house for ~1hr. The company is just under 10 miles from my home. I'm not sure how their Techs are paid, but some years ago I had them fix a problem I had with my hot water baseboard heat in our last home. I asked the guy if he was willing to do side-work installing a gas line in the basement for me. He basically said heck no. He comes out ahead working through his employer.