People blocking charging stations.

I don’t agree. The people of California vote for this, majority rules.
If they run out of power it’s the voters fault

No politics just simple facts.
I’ll never let anybody tell me what to do, what to cut back on, etc. if I can pay for it and it’s sold I’ll buy it on my terms.
I’m not changing my standard of living because of the poor choices of other people.
Please show me the facts, not your opinions. If there are FACTS to support your position, they must be documented somewhere, and since you reference such facts, I'm sure you can produce them, or links to them.

As for never letting anybody tell you what to do, etc., that also seems like a poor choice, and I'll leave it at that.
 
According to the CA Governor, 16 percent of vehicles registered in Cali are EV’s.
Wonder what it gonna be like when it goes to the 35% “wanted” in 2026 and the 68% in 2030?

LMAO……..

Yep, anything that gubner says requires immediate fact checking.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/estimated-fee-paid-vehicle-registration-by-county-report-pdf/

https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10962

I arrived at just under 2.2% based on 25,643,076/573,070

Your mileage may vary. Especially if you can’t re-charge that soon to be mandated EV.
 
Solar PV panel and wind power has been the main supply addition to the grid, and that can at least triple before hitting diminishing returns. Critics say "but what about at night or if the wind isn't blowing", while EV drivers are saying that they will be happy to charge any time it is cheaper to do so.
It's a LOT more complicated with that. Solar is seasonal and produces the duck curve, which requires storage. Wind presents a similar challenge, but needs weeks of storage and tends to be least available when demand is the highest; it produces grossly out of phase with demand and has a capacity value that approaches zero in many locations.

Wind and solar are not firm supply additions, but they are marketed as though they are, which is how we end up in these situations where people hold that up as "we are adding capacity" and the reality is, no, you aren't. You are displacing capacity with complementary sources that can do so, when they are available, and this has an emissions advantage, typically, but the idea that these are capacity additions are a ruse, because they aren't firm or dispatchable and when you shutdown firm and dispatchable sources and install wind and solar, you create unreliability, demand response (load sheddng) and require things like synchronous condensers and batteries to maintain frequency, and these all have a cost, both in terms of money, for all the complexity, and societal tolerance for rate increases and rolling blackouts, and ratepayers are only willing to take so much of that.

EV drivers will charge when its convenient, that's typically a period between when they get home from work and the following morning, the period where solar isn't available. This is preferable because it's convenient (come home, plug-in) and you avoid the hassle and cost of trying to charge publicly. This is one of the main selling points for EV's, charging at home, which is considerably less expensive than gasoline/diesel. You eliminate that advantage, you will tank sales. This is where, if a grid has lots of low cost firm generation available, they can encourage people to use it by keeping overnight rates low.
I doubt that many people are knowingly charging their EVs during a flex alert unless they have an immediate need. There are likely far more that haven't changed their A/C habits, or even turned down the setpoint temperature. A bigger group is using more power without realizing it. I know my wife immediate goes to "it's too hot to do anything outside, so I'll stay inside and cook" and has to be reminded about why that is counter-productive.
But what's wrong with that? We are living in first world nations with high standards of living. The grid was built to provide inexpensive round-the-clock reliable power, and this worked very well all through the major growth periods. Going forward, we will need even more abundant, reliable, inexpensive electricity, and we have the capability to produce that, but development of these sources is hamstrung by regulation and degrowth-obsessed environmental advocacy groups that have the ears of politicians.

I don't set my house temp to 16C during the winter and choose to be uncomfortable because I want to conserve natural gas, that's an unreasonable expectation. If people are willing to pay for these services (and we do) then these operations should be able to provide what is being paid for. The issue is that in places like California, these services are commanding rates that the rest of North America finds appalling, and yet they do not receive what they are paying for.

I'm not willing to accept the premise that the future involves living like a pauper; living like we are in the 3rd world with electricity when its available provided by the "wind and sun", while paying vastly more for everything because it's for the "greater good". And I'm willing to bet that the majority agrees. We didn't move on from sailing ships because they were just too awesome. There has never been a period of time in which society has progressed while pursuing a less dense form of energy.

Rising rates relegated the Ontario Liberal party to non-party status with only 7 seats, giving a huge majority to the party that promised to stop the "green" nonsense. We are now subsidizing electricity bills to the tune of $6 billion dollars a year to keep voters happy, and that's the reality I suspect that will be in store for other locations that pursue similarly flawed policy that fails to deliver on its promises and drives up rates. "Energy Poverty" was a phrase that entered the vernacular of Ontarians and it ultimately resulted in punishing change. It would be foolish for other jurisdictions not to keep that in mind.
 
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Of course my solar panels do not generate without sunlight. And with rolling blackouts, they are not contributing to supply. @OVERKILL might have to correct me on this, but if there is not power to the inverter from the grid, I am guessing both consumption and generation are unavailable.

Home battery storage is expensive, but is an option. Off the grid, as they say. What I have now works in my case.
Going forward, I am more interested in a more widespread solution. That comes from reducing demand where is makes sense.
 
Thanks @OVERKILL. Certainly true regarding the supply side.
I humbly suggest the increasing energy demand due to something is a key contributer. We are like a dog chasing our tail.
An ounce of prevention...
Demand absolutely soared during the last century. If you look at some of the projects we built in the early 1900's and then compare those to the capacity additions that followed, and their size, demand is not the problem, keeping pace with it via supply is, and that is not a technological or even financial problem, it is an incompetence (political) one.

The first few power stations at Niagara Falls were ~100MW in size, but were huge facilities. The first Beck plant was "massive" in comparison at ~350MW IIRC. However, its sister that followed, at 1,525MW dwarfed it. We then built a 4,000MW coal plant and then a 4,200MW nuke, followed by a 6,350MW nuke and it was going to be followed by a 7,024MW nuke (Darlington A/B) and there were plans for Bruce C, which would have expanded the Bruce site to 9,872MW.

Then, soft-path ideology took hold, plans were shelved, plants were neglected and things went south. We've only recently recovered from some of that, but all that momentum was lost. Lovins is a proponent of the soft path approach.
 
Demand absolutely soared during the last century. If you look at some of the projects we built in the early 1900's and then compare those to the capacity additions that followed, and their size, demand is not the problem, keeping pace with it via supply is, and that is not a technological or even financial problem, it is an incompetence (political) one.

The first few power stations at Niagara Falls were ~100MW in size, but were huge facilities. The first Beck plant was "massive" in comparison at ~350MW IIRC. However, its sister that followed, at 1,525MW dwarfed it. We then built a 4,000MW coal plant and then a 4,200MW nuke, followed by a 6,350MW nuke and it was going to be followed by a 7,024MW nuke (Darlington A/B) and there were plans for Bruce C, which would have expanded the Bruce site to 9,872MW.

Then, soft-path ideology took hold, plans were shelved, plants were neglected and things went south. We've only recently recovered from some of that, but all that momentum was lost. Lovins is a proponent of the soft path approach.
I cannot agree that demand is not a problem. It is a key problem. You said as much in your first sentence.
Looking at only supply is looking at half the problem, at best.
 
I just don't know how you enforce bad behavior.
It has nothing to do with bad behavior. Well, maybe they could be charged with disorderly conduct too..... In a simple scenario, the property owner tells the people in the vehicles that are blocking the chargers to leave. If they don't, the police can be called and those people should be charged with trespassing. Will the police show up ? Maybe.... I mean, they do have to prioritize their calls.
 
Of course my solar panels do not generate without sunlight. And with rolling blackouts, they are not contributing to supply. @OVERKILL might have to correct me on this, but if there is not power to the inverter from the grid, I am guessing both consumption and generation are unavailable.

Home battery storage is expensive, but is an option. Off the grid, as they say. What I have now works in my case.
Going forward, I am more interested in a more widespread solution. That comes from reducing demand where is makes sense.
Yes, you need a storage medium and a transfer switch to go off-grid/be up when the grid is down, similar to adding a whole-house generator (the transfer switch). This is done for the safety of power workers (preventing you from back-feeding the grid during an outage).
 
I cannot agree that demand is not a problem. It is a key problem. Looking at only supply is looking at half the problem, at best.
Demand is something that can be easily addressed through proper planning of supply. We did this for 100 years, it isn't new, and it has never presented as an insurmountable obstacle. Throwing our hands up and going "but muh demand!" ignores that entire history. One has to assume the bizarre premise that we were able to build everything that currently exists without issue, but adding a bit more all of a sudden is impossible? No, that's silly.

Demand has become a problem because we haven't been planning for it, and that's entirely a political and planning issue, it has nothing to do with the demand itself.
 
Yes, you need a storage medium and a transfer switch to go off-grid/be up when the grid is down, similar to adding a whole-house generator (the transfer switch). This is done for the safety of power workers (preventing you from back-feeding the grid during an outage).
I was talking about going off the grid completely. But that would cost me another $20K or so.
 
I was talking about going off the grid completely. But that would cost me another $20K or so.
Yeah, you'd need a pretty big bank of batteries and more panels most likely. A buddy of mine is off grid and he has three generators and two large lithium iron phosphate battery banks, I think he'll have about $50K into the setup with solar panels?
 
Rising rates relegated the Ontario Liberal party to non-party status with only 7 seats, giving a huge majority to the party that promised to stop the "green" nonsense. We are now subsidizing electricity bills to the tune of $6 billion dollars a year to keep voters happy, and that's the reality I suspect that will be in store for other locations that pursue similarly flawed policy that fails to deliver on its promises and drives up rates. "Energy Poverty" was a phrase that entered the vernacular of Ontarians and it ultimately resulted in punishing change. It would be foolish for other jurisdictions not to keep that in mind.
What's the unsubsidized cost of power in Ontario?
 
I agree with most of what you said, however once something becomes a law, like or not you have to obey it or suffer the consequences. Me I hope I'm never forced into owning an EV, but I'm not going to walk if an EV is my only choice.
If you are like most middle class people you will get an electric bicycle and like it. LOL

ev bike.webp
 
What's the unsubsidized cost of power in Ontario?
You can lock-in for $0.12/kWh. The subsidy is a separate line-item amusingly.

To give you an idea, I used to pay $0.043/kWh back when we first bought this house, before the GEA, so around 2008.

Current rates, before the subsidy, are as follows:
Screen Shot 2022-09-07 at 4.14.48 PM.webp
 
Yep, with any luck I'll be living in another state long before NYS citizens have the chance to decide.
Spent over 40 years old in NY, Born and raised there, Great place to grow up many fantastic memories, but I saw the change coming almost 2 decades ago and 16 years ago moved to the land of the free!
I never looked back!
 
The CPUC sucks too. For example:
"After PG&E committed the felony manslaughter of 84 people by starting the 2018 Camp Fire through criminally reckless operation of its power grid, the CPUC played a key role in approving PG&E’s plan to exit bankruptcy and waived a $200 million fine for PG&E’s safety violations."

Lotsa blame to go around.
I agree, and as always just having conversation with you.
 
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