Ok here is a latest and greatest on the non package arrival. I called USPS and found the number for the local Brooklyn Post Office. took a bunch of calls to get through but I did manage to talk to a clerk. once I mentioned my situation she asked to the address. once she heard the address she mentioned she knows the person and they get a lot of packages and they *** always have gotten their stuff ** she checked and said the package was attempted to be delivered on 6-22-2013 ( Saturday ) the business was not open on Saturday so they stopped back on Monday and ***delivered*** the package. so I took the info and posted it in the case that was opened on Ebay. included the clerks name and phone number. the kicker is she said the person just left the office and has not once inquired about a missing package. wonder what Paypal will decide with the new information ? at this point not sure what else I can do .
Paypal seller portection and Ebay dispute
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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I haven't done it in a while( probably close to 2 years or maybe longer )as I haven't sold anything really worth it for quiet a while( last thing was a camcorder I sold that the buyer elected to add the $2.50 shipping insurance ). I used to be able to add it using the send invoice option. Maybe E-Bay has removed the ability to add to the invoice above and beyond the cost of the purchased item? If so I would send a seperate invoice through PP for it.
No one said you can't include the insurance charges in the overall shipping and handling fee. That's legitimate. I have so few shipping problems that I only bother to insure my most costly items. When it's something that I know I will want to insure, I just build the cost into the total price, which is what ebay rules say you should do.
What you cannot do is tell the buyer "hey, if you want insurance that will be an extra $2.50. I'll just send you a paypay invoice for it." That is a violation of ebay policies and seems pretty sketchy.
My guess is that the reasoning is since insurance is basically there to protect the seller it is the seller's responsibility to decide if they want it and to build it into the price.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
E-Bay can try and tell me I can not charge for insurance, and to disguise it as handling fees, all they want. Good luck with that to them. Hiding a fee under the guise of another is very dishonest. I am 100% straight with people and I am not hiding anything. Rather I list and spell out everything clearly in the auction details and that includes allowing them to purchase insurance if they wish.
If the buyer does not choose to purchase it they are on the hook. I would fight all the way to the highest court possible on that. I also state in my auction details that if they choose not to purchase the insurance they accept the risks for damage and loss not me. By still bidding on the item they accept those terms E-Bay rules or not.
E-Bay has become a place totally against the seller. That is the only reason to not allow sellers to offer insurance. It makes it harder to side with the buyer at all costs for them. Way too easy for dishonest buyers to screw you. They can try and enforce ridiculous rules all they want, and make me be dishonest all they want, but I am not going to get screwed nor am I going to be dishonest.
I always have proof I sent the item properly packaged and the seller refused to purchase insurance. Not my issue to deal with although I will try if UPS is used for instance and the value is covered by the included insurance. If E-Bay or PP ever try and take money from me without my consent my accounts will be closed and they will be in court fast.
Well, I give you credit for your passion and hyperbole, whether or not it's based on any actual understanding of ebay policies. Again, ebay isn't blocking insurance. They're just blocking sellers charging a separate insurance fee and they saying "hey, it doesn't matter that I poorly packed the item and it was damaged. You didn't buy insurance."
I'm not trying to be rude, but I would encourage you do to more research on ebay rules an policies before you sell any more items. It's easy to claim you'll take them to court in an internet posting. But would you really over a single ebay item? Unless it's a very pricey item, you'd be wasting your time.
It doesn't matter what you write in your auctions. If you violate ebay policies or a buyer files a claim because an item is damaged, you will likely lose the battle in the court of ebay justice.
I'm just trying to offer some real-world advice. I'm not trying to personally attack you.
I haven't done it in a while( probably close to 2 years or maybe longer )as I haven't sold anything really worth it for quiet a while( last thing was a camcorder I sold that the buyer elected to add the $2.50 shipping insurance ). I used to be able to add it using the send invoice option. Maybe E-Bay has removed the ability to add to the invoice above and beyond the cost of the purchased item? If so I would send a seperate invoice through PP for it.
No one said you can't include the insurance charges in the overall shipping and handling fee. That's legitimate. I have so few shipping problems that I only bother to insure my most costly items. When it's something that I know I will want to insure, I just build the cost into the total price, which is what ebay rules say you should do.
What you cannot do is tell the buyer "hey, if you want insurance that will be an extra $2.50. I'll just send you a paypay invoice for it." That is a violation of ebay policies and seems pretty sketchy.
My guess is that the reasoning is since insurance is basically there to protect the seller it is the seller's responsibility to decide if they want it and to build it into the price.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
E-Bay can try and tell me I can not charge for insurance, and to disguise it as handling fees, all they want. Good luck with that to them. Hiding a fee under the guise of another is very dishonest. I am 100% straight with people and I am not hiding anything. Rather I list and spell out everything clearly in the auction details and that includes allowing them to purchase insurance if they wish.
If the buyer does not choose to purchase it they are on the hook. I would fight all the way to the highest court possible on that. I also state in my auction details that if they choose not to purchase the insurance they accept the risks for damage and loss not me. By still bidding on the item they accept those terms E-Bay rules or not.
E-Bay has become a place totally against the seller. That is the only reason to not allow sellers to offer insurance. It makes it harder to side with the buyer at all costs for them. Way too easy for dishonest buyers to screw you. They can try and enforce ridiculous rules all they want, and make me be dishonest all they want, but I am not going to get screwed nor am I going to be dishonest.
I always have proof I sent the item properly packaged and the seller refused to purchase insurance. Not my issue to deal with although I will try if UPS is used for instance and the value is covered by the included insurance. If E-Bay or PP ever try and take money from me without my consent my accounts will be closed and they will be in court fast.
Well, I give you credit for your passion and hyperbole, whether or not it's based on any actual understanding of ebay policies. Again, ebay isn't blocking insurance. They're just blocking sellers charging a separate insurance fee and they saying "hey, it doesn't matter that I poorly packed the item and it was damaged. You didn't buy insurance."
I'm not trying to be rude, but I would encourage you do to more research on ebay rules an policies before you sell any more items. It's easy to claim you'll take them to court in an internet posting. But would you really over a single ebay item? Unless it's a very pricey item, you'd be wasting your time.
It doesn't matter what you write in your auctions. If you violate ebay policies or a buyer files a claim because an item is damaged, you will likely lose the battle in the court of ebay justice.
I'm just trying to offer some real-world advice. I'm not trying to personally attack you.
Why is it sketchy to ask the buyer to pay for the insurance? That is no different than buying from other online sources and having to pay extra for it? I already pay for the shipping and packing materials( I have never charged for shipping - has always been free with me ). I am not paying for insurance nor am I going to be dishonest and hide it under the guise of "handling fees" as E-Bay wants me to do however.
I have read their policies and I flat refuse to follow this one. If they wish to kick me off because of that go for it. I am not lieing and being dishonest however. Also, not allowing the seller to add insurance on the buyer's dime is yet another instance where E-Bay is screwing over sellers. They used to be very bias in the seller's favor and now they have gone completely the other way to the point the seller's are the ones on the short end of the stick.
I have read their policies and I flat refuse to follow this one. If they wish to kick me off because of that go for it. I am not lieing and being dishonest however. Also, not allowing the seller to add insurance on the buyer's dime is yet another instance where E-Bay is screwing over sellers. They used to be very bias in the seller's favor and now they have gone completely the other way to the point the seller's are the ones on the short end of the stick.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Why is it sketchy to ask the buyer to pay for the insurance? That is no different than buying from other online sources and having to pay extra for it? I already pay for the shipping and packing materials( I have never charged for shipping - has always been free with me ). I am not paying for insurance nor am I going to be dishonest and hide it under the guise of "handling fees" as E-Bay wants me to do however.
I have read their policies and I flat refuse to follow this one. If they wish to kick me off because of that go for it. I am not lieing and being dishonest however. Also, not allowing the seller to add insurance on the buyer's dime is yet another instance where E-Bay is screwing over sellers. They used to be very bias in the seller's favor and now they have gone completely the other way to the point the seller's are the ones on the short end of the stick.
According to eBay policy, as a seller, you're responsible for the product until it gets to the buyer in the condition you described in the listing. You can choose to not follow the policy and disagree with it, but if something disappears or gets damaged in shipping, you're losing the claim and eating the loss. It's pretty simple.
I self insure and realize that there is always the possibility I will lose my item and the proceeds from the sale. It's just a risk of doing business that I am willing to take. I won't sell anything valued more than a few hundred dollars.
Why is it sketchy to ask the buyer to pay for the insurance? That is no different than buying from other online sources and having to pay extra for it? I already pay for the shipping and packing materials( I have never charged for shipping - has always been free with me ). I am not paying for insurance nor am I going to be dishonest and hide it under the guise of "handling fees" as E-Bay wants me to do however.
I have read their policies and I flat refuse to follow this one. If they wish to kick me off because of that go for it. I am not lieing and being dishonest however. Also, not allowing the seller to add insurance on the buyer's dime is yet another instance where E-Bay is screwing over sellers. They used to be very bias in the seller's favor and now they have gone completely the other way to the point the seller's are the ones on the short end of the stick.
According to eBay policy, as a seller, you're responsible for the product until it gets to the buyer in the condition you described in the listing. You can choose to not follow the policy and disagree with it, but if something disappears or gets damaged in shipping, you're losing the claim and eating the loss. It's pretty simple.
I self insure and realize that there is always the possibility I will lose my item and the proceeds from the sale. It's just a risk of doing business that I am willing to take. I won't sell anything valued more than a few hundred dollars.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Why is it sketchy to ask the buyer to pay for the insurance? That is no different than buying from other online sources and having to pay extra for it? I already pay for the shipping and packing materials( I have never charged for shipping - has always been free with me ). I am not paying for insurance nor am I going to be dishonest and hide it under the guise of "handling fees" as E-Bay wants me to do however.
I have read their policies and I flat refuse to follow this one. If they wish to kick me off because of that go for it. I am not lieing and being dishonest however. Also, not allowing the seller to add insurance on the buyer's dime is yet another instance where E-Bay is screwing over sellers. They used to be very bias in the seller's favor and now they have gone completely the other way to the point the seller's are the ones on the short end of the stick.
The point to me is what you are saying is directly contradictory to what the terms say. I get that we all might not agree with them, but those are the rules as they stand. The terms say if you want to provide insurance it should be billed as handling. That's how you put it on the buyer's dime. That's the end of it to me. If I was offering/including insurance I would just put a note that says handling cost equals insurance and materials, it's full disclosure to the buyer, just like adding a note that tells the buyer they can buy insurance. Therefore, I don't see insurance billed as handling as a lie.
That said, I agree that ebay favors the buyers in a dispute, so I don't understand why a seller would knowingly go against the terms when there are options to further protect themselves. Not abiding by the rules laid out seems like it makes it a pretty open and shut case when a buyer opens a dispute.
On the going to court, past the fact that (I believe) signing up for paypal forced everyone to agree to paypal as the final arbitrator, the reality is the potential damage to ones long term credit just through paypal sending their account to collections far outweighs the vindication that the person may get if they actually followed through with a court case... at least it does IMO.
Why is it sketchy to ask the buyer to pay for the insurance? That is no different than buying from other online sources and having to pay extra for it? I already pay for the shipping and packing materials( I have never charged for shipping - has always been free with me ). I am not paying for insurance nor am I going to be dishonest and hide it under the guise of "handling fees" as E-Bay wants me to do however.
I have read their policies and I flat refuse to follow this one. If they wish to kick me off because of that go for it. I am not lieing and being dishonest however. Also, not allowing the seller to add insurance on the buyer's dime is yet another instance where E-Bay is screwing over sellers. They used to be very bias in the seller's favor and now they have gone completely the other way to the point the seller's are the ones on the short end of the stick.
The point to me is what you are saying is directly contradictory to what the terms say. I get that we all might not agree with them, but those are the rules as they stand. The terms say if you want to provide insurance it should be billed as handling. That's how you put it on the buyer's dime. That's the end of it to me. If I was offering/including insurance I would just put a note that says handling cost equals insurance and materials, it's full disclosure to the buyer, just like adding a note that tells the buyer they can buy insurance. Therefore, I don't see insurance billed as handling as a lie.
That said, I agree that ebay favors the buyers in a dispute, so I don't understand why a seller would knowingly go against the terms when there are options to further protect themselves. Not abiding by the rules laid out seems like it makes it a pretty open and shut case when a buyer opens a dispute.
On the going to court, past the fact that (I believe) signing up for paypal forced everyone to agree to paypal as the final arbitrator, the reality is the potential damage to ones long term credit just through paypal sending their account to collections far outweighs the vindication that the person may get if they actually followed through with a court case... at least it does IMO.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Why is it sketchy to ask the buyer to pay for the insurance? That is no different than buying from other online sources and having to pay extra for it? I already pay for the shipping and packing materials( I have never charged for shipping - has always been free with me ).
My listings generally have free shipping. The costs of shipping and insurance (if I choose it) are built into that cost.
You could argue that including the shipping costs in your item's cost and saying it has "free shipping" is also dishonest to the buyer, since they really are paying it. It's the same as the insurance argument you're trying to make.
Anyway, if I bought something and the seller tried to get me to pay extra for insurance, that would seem sketchy to me and I would possibly report them to ebay. It would seem to me like they're trying to get more money out of the transaction after it's done, with an attitude of "hey, it would be a shame if something were to happen to your precious ebay item and it weren't insured."
I would refuse the extra insurance and if the item showed up damaged I'd file a claim and most likely win and get my money back.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is how ebay works, whether you agree with it or not. This whole argument is a moot point anyway, since it appears you haven't sold anything on ebay for quite some time.
Why is it sketchy to ask the buyer to pay for the insurance? That is no different than buying from other online sources and having to pay extra for it? I already pay for the shipping and packing materials( I have never charged for shipping - has always been free with me ).
My listings generally have free shipping. The costs of shipping and insurance (if I choose it) are built into that cost.
You could argue that including the shipping costs in your item's cost and saying it has "free shipping" is also dishonest to the buyer, since they really are paying it. It's the same as the insurance argument you're trying to make.
Anyway, if I bought something and the seller tried to get me to pay extra for insurance, that would seem sketchy to me and I would possibly report them to ebay. It would seem to me like they're trying to get more money out of the transaction after it's done, with an attitude of "hey, it would be a shame if something were to happen to your precious ebay item and it weren't insured."
I would refuse the extra insurance and if the item showed up damaged I'd file a claim and most likely win and get my money back.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is how ebay works, whether you agree with it or not. This whole argument is a moot point anyway, since it appears you haven't sold anything on ebay for quite some time.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
You could argue that including the shipping costs in your item's cost and saying it has "free shipping" is also dishonest to the buyer, since they really are paying it. It's the same as the insurance argument you're trying to make.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is how ebay works, whether you agree with it or not. This whole argument is a moot point anyway, since it appears you haven't sold anything on ebay for quite some time.
Truthfully I do not factor shipping in when setting my price unless it is something really big and $$$. I ask what I want for the item and the shipping is on me. I realize that may seem odd to some( many )but I just do not believe in any kind of trickery or marketing gimmicks.
I have sold plenty on E-Bay recently. Not sure why you think otherwise? I haven't sold any expensive things there for a while where insurance would play into it but I sell plenty.
This is getting really old so I am done. I can only say the same thing so many times. You either agree or disagree but to continue to argue it is pointless.
You could argue that including the shipping costs in your item's cost and saying it has "free shipping" is also dishonest to the buyer, since they really are paying it. It's the same as the insurance argument you're trying to make.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is how ebay works, whether you agree with it or not. This whole argument is a moot point anyway, since it appears you haven't sold anything on ebay for quite some time.
Truthfully I do not factor shipping in when setting my price unless it is something really big and $$$. I ask what I want for the item and the shipping is on me. I realize that may seem odd to some( many )but I just do not believe in any kind of trickery or marketing gimmicks.
I have sold plenty on E-Bay recently. Not sure why you think otherwise? I haven't sold any expensive things there for a while where insurance would play into it but I sell plenty.
This is getting really old so I am done. I can only say the same thing so many times. You either agree or disagree but to continue to argue it is pointless.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
You could argue that including the shipping costs in your item's cost and saying it has "free shipping" is also dishonest to the buyer, since they really are paying it. It's the same as the insurance argument you're trying to make.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is how ebay works, whether you agree with it or not. This whole argument is a moot point anyway, since it appears you haven't sold anything on ebay for quite some time.
Truthfully I do not factor shipping in when setting my price unless it is something really big and $$$. I ask what I want for the item and the shipping is on me. I realize that may seem odd to some( many )but I just do not believe in any kind of trickery or marketing gimmicks.
I have sold plenty on E-Bay recently. Not sure why you think otherwise? I haven't sold any expensive things there for a while where insurance would play into it but I sell plenty.
This is getting really old so I am done. I can only say the same thing so many times. You either agree or disagree but to continue to argue it is pointless.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I haven't done it in a while( probably close to 2 years or maybe longer )as I haven't sold anything really worth it for quiet a while( last thing was a camcorder I sold that the buyer elected to add the $2.50 shipping insurance ). I used to be able to add it using the send invoice option. Maybe E-Bay has removed the ability to add to the invoice above and beyond the cost of the purchased item? If so I would send a seperate invoice through PP for it.
I think that post was throwing him off.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
You could argue that including the shipping costs in your item's cost and saying it has "free shipping" is also dishonest to the buyer, since they really are paying it. It's the same as the insurance argument you're trying to make.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is how ebay works, whether you agree with it or not. This whole argument is a moot point anyway, since it appears you haven't sold anything on ebay for quite some time.
Truthfully I do not factor shipping in when setting my price unless it is something really big and $$$. I ask what I want for the item and the shipping is on me. I realize that may seem odd to some( many )but I just do not believe in any kind of trickery or marketing gimmicks.
I have sold plenty on E-Bay recently. Not sure why you think otherwise? I haven't sold any expensive things there for a while where insurance would play into it but I sell plenty.
This is getting really old so I am done. I can only say the same thing so many times. You either agree or disagree but to continue to argue it is pointless.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I haven't done it in a while( probably close to 2 years or maybe longer )as I haven't sold anything really worth it for quiet a while( last thing was a camcorder I sold that the buyer elected to add the $2.50 shipping insurance ). I used to be able to add it using the send invoice option. Maybe E-Bay has removed the ability to add to the invoice above and beyond the cost of the purchased item? If so I would send a seperate invoice through PP for it.
I think that post was throwing him off.
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