Paying for College...

[Pop_Rivit]

It baffles me that people will moan and complain about a 20K college bill, but think nothing of paying several hundred dollars each month on a vehicle worth much more than that.

It sounds like a lot of people have some mixed up priorities in the "gotta have it now" generation.

My parents never paid a dime toward my post high school education and I wouldn't have had it any other way. It was all paid by me working nights as a security guard, working summers in a packing plant and doing every possible part time job I could in order to pay the tuition. It was clear that it was an investment in my future and one that has paid off multiple times over. When I graduated I had about $1,000 in college debt that was paid off before me and my wife even considered a newer car or buying a home (that's about $7,000 in today's dollars).

A bachelors degree is, on average, worth about $1,000,000 more over a lifetime than a high school diploma. Each higher level of education over and above a bachelors degree earns an extra $250,000 to $500,000 average over a lifetime (US News, August 5, 2011). Given the low wages and higher unemployment of those without college educations (or at least some post-high school education) I'm amazed at anyone who would consider anything less.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Everyone I know who flipped homes got caught in their last one and are crying. And what money they made is all spent.


The smart ones like the construction group for which I helped supply the venture capital got out of flipping homes and back into remodeling a few months before the housing bubble burst. It was clear (to anyone with half a brain) that there were a lot of problems with financial institutions even before the Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers collapse. Watching the investor losses mount in 2006 and 2007 should have been a huge red flag to anyone in that industry, and indeed was for those savvy enough to understand what was going on. I know of a number of flippers who wisely got out before the crash.

Then there were also a few that decided to ignore the warning signs and they got caught by the crash. It was both ignorance and greed that got them into trouble.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Greed. Agreed!^^^


Originally Posted By: JHZR2
^ yes but there are plenty of folks who mortgaged their homes and lived off of credit cards to build their business, and failed...

Its not all success and passive income for life for all.


No, and it would be wrong to expect that. But every one I've ever met who "made it" to a position of financial security can usually tell you a story of total failure. I can.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


The way it looks to me the college route was a lot easier. But my rewards are larger, and I don't have to work as much.


I have to wonder how true this is on average across the board. How many 12+ hour days did you put in at the start? > 40 hr weeks at the start? How much risk, sweat equity and whatnot?

Its kind of like a few years back when everyone was saying how great of an investment real estate was. So they went out buying new homes and flipping old ones. Some made profit and it was good and the percentages showed up nicely. But yet after the drops and after the taxes and interest and everything else, the average return on real estate for most is pretty poor all things considered.

IMO it is the same way with self employment. Nothing wrong with it, in fact, it is a great way to earn a living and likely better influence others' lives than some college degree with corporation desk job forever. But the real return, overall, all things considered Ill have to bet isnt really that great compared to anything else (besides maybe 1-5% at the top of their game, which is the anomaly outlier just like anyplace/anything else).


People who don't know how to do real estate get slaughtered.

I do very well in it, and have been for a long time. I know a lot of other people who do as well.

But its a job, and its very hard. Most people don't have the stomach for it, and are unwilling to invest the time.

Flipping houses is still quite good if you buy right. I haven't done any recently because its not really my area of expertise, but I have been tempted on a few recently. However it seems like a lot of work for, what I don't think is a really good profit. I prefer building new homes because the margins are better, and you don't have to deal with someone else's [censored].

I prefer to speculate in land, new construction, and rentals. Because even in this economy land and rentals are oh so good.

Building condo's is IMHO the holly grail, I really want to get into a good condo area, IMHO its a license to print $100 dollar bills. I know someone who is going to clear $6m on one deal alone this year.

 

[65cuda]

If it is worth so much more then how come the universities are having students sue because of their debt that they can't make enough to pay for. I know several graduates that are saying that basically their degree isn't hardly worth the paper it is printed on. I've also worked with many college grads because they could make more in the shop than they could with their degree. In some fields I'm sure it is worth a lot more, but I think it something that people need to look at what the cost will be vs what the benefit will be.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: 65cuda
If it is worth so much more then how come the universities are having students sue because of their debt that they can't make enough to pay for. I know several graduates that are saying that basically their degree isn't hardly worth the paper it is printed on. I've also worked with many college grads because they could make more in the shop than they could with their degree. In some fields I'm sure it is worth a lot more, but I think it something that people need to look at what the cost will be vs what the benefit will be.


When you read the CV for some of these 99% folks who show up in stories such as at yahoo, you tend to find that they majored in art, English, theater, etc.

Stuff that might land you a teaching job if a district is looking for one, but for the most part is otherwise a useless degree for all but the 0.0001% that actually find success in that.

Sorry, but going to college isnt a golden ticket (though McDonalds probably doesnt mind if your degree is in theater or business so long as you manage the third shift well). You need to have a viable skill, and present yourself well to be someone of value. Paying someone to keep a seat warm isnt a very good way to go about existing when youre a business.

So Im not particularly sorry for many of these folks who find that their degree isnt worth much when in reality it was in a silly subject that probably would have been perfect for a double major, but instead is their only qualification.

 

[65cuda]

Actually some of the ones suing at lawyers that now can't find a job that pays near what they thought they would be getting. It was only a few years ago that we were bringing teachers from other countries because we couldn't find them here for the fields needed. Now they aren't being hired. Also many that have been laid off had degrees in business and held positions of authority, but also now can't find a job. In fact some are dumbing down their degrees because they find that they are being passed over because they have too much education.

 

[JHZR2]

yeah but I dont know that a "business" degre does much compared to the trials and tribulations of successful operation with some failures interlaced.

I know that the business majors that I knew took dumbed down calculus and other classes. So really, they dont even understand the true maths behind what they supposedly will be analyzing?

And if it comes to becoming the manager of the wal mart or similar wage slave store, the person who is known to do it best is going to be the winner. Will a degree show some aspect of knowledge and maturity? Sure, but too many business and finance types come out with IMO limited practical skill, and expect that they are management material out of the gate. They need to learn to be an indian before they are a chief, the degree is just one of the boxes to check. Thus limited/no sympathy from me in that aspect.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Many of my degreed friends make surprisingly little. Some are out of work entirely.

I have noticed that they also tend to think they should get the money up front from their employer! The sad fact is you have to earn that in most fields.

In my biz when I worked for others I had to earn them 6 times what I wanted to be paid.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Many of my degreed friends make surprisingly little. Some are out of work entirely.

I have noticed that they also tend to think they should get the money up front from their employer! The sad fact is you have to earn that in most fields.

In my biz when I worked for others I had to earn them 6 times what I wanted to be paid.



Problem is that good, competent technical people I cannot find. I'd hire ten at good wages if I could. Its all very field specific.

 

[Mr Nice]

Lots of people think they are entitled to a well paying job just cause they have a degree. I met an Embry-Riddle engineering student that said he wouldn't work for less than $80,000 per year right out of school with zero experience (being the office gopher during an internship does not count as experience). Maybe kids should tone down their ego if the expect to find a job.

I wonder what this kid will say during a job interview when he finds out his job offer pays peanuts, that's if he even gets an interview. Lots of people like him are in for a rude awakening.

 

[65cuda]

A lot of people not only with degrees, but also skilled labor have gotten laid off or just graduated and think they deserve the top wage. Usually after they are out of work for a while hunger pains start to change their min. pay level plans.