The cost of college

[Pew]

Triple digits for textbooks that are changed annually to pay royalties to another professor? Another insanity.

I had a political science teacher in college that made us buy his ~$120 political science textbook that he wrote. That was ridiculous; it would have been more useful to throw the book at him than the 3 times we used it.

 

[missingcurlybracket]

My story. Father of 3. My oldest is in a small state college (sophomore). Here in VA, that is about $27K all-in for a year which is the best way to look at it IMHO, many focus on tuition only. Tuition alone is about $13K so room/board is actually more. When I went to a small VA state school in 1991, my parents were paying about $8K all-in for a year. My wife and I's parents both paid all of our college expense less spending money/summer job. I paid my own grad school/masters but living at home/working. We pay for his with college savings we started when he was born plus money gifted us by parents and it has worked out to just about cover all of it. My middle son is a senior in HS and will be working/not going to college; he is a technician in training at a GMC dealer and he went the technical route in HS. My youngest is 13 and we'll figure that out when the time comes. The reason college in-part costs what it does, to me, is based mainly on the fact that loans exist to pay for it easily so what economic/market driver is there for it to not cost what it does? If there were no student loans, I can assure you it would cost much less than it does. Just like vehicles. Just like houses. Just like health care.

Same deal here, JMU was ~$5-6k/semester when I graduated a few years ago. (oh how time flew)

At least there's a nice new hotel, second convocation center on-campus now... (I believe it's a second convo, but don't quote me on that)

I was lucky to have some professors come out saying "since I have rights to the textbook here are free PDFs of the sections we're going to use" but I think the most egregious was shelling out for an online subscription so you'd have and could submit solutions to the current set of homework problems.

 

[TiGeo]

Same deal here, JMU was ~$5-6k/semester when I graduated a few years ago. (oh how time flew)

At least there's a nice new hotel, second convocation center on-campus now... (I believe it's a second convo, but don't quote me on that)

I was lucky to have some professors come out saying "since I have rights to the textbook here are free PDFs of the sections we're going to use" but I think the most egregious was shelling out for an online subscription so you'd have and could submit solutions to the current set of homework problems.

My son is at CNU down in Newport News. Books haven't been bad at all.

 

[PWMDMD]

This post is classic...."half a brain"...maybe if folks didn't say garbage like this more kids would look at trades but b/c folks like this like to comment, effectively, that it's for the dumb kids...well....everyone should go to college right? And so the cycle continues....

I learned a long time ago that there are certain professions that require some level of raw intelligence, there's just no way around it, but plenty of really smart/intelligent people choose to do a whole lot of different things for a living for a whole lot of reasons. I agree, we need to stop talking about the trades as if they are only for kids who aren't academically gifted enough to make college a wise choice. As someone who chose higher education, I've always railed against the idea that my identity is what I chose to do for a living because had I chosen to be a carpenter I'd still have the same brain/academic ability.

 

[TiGeo]

I learned a long time ago that there are certain professions that require some level of raw intelligence, there's just no way around it, but plenty of really smart/intelligent people choose to do a whole lot of different things for a living for a whole lot of reasons. I agree, we need to stop talking about the trades as if they are only for kids who aren't academically gifted enough to make college a wise choice. As someone who chose higher education, I've always railed against the idea that my identity is what I chose to do for a living because had I chosen to be a carpenter I'd still have the same brain/academic ability.

I have 2 degrees as a geologist, I get the academic side of things and really enjoyed higher education as did my wife. And yes, raw intellegence clearly isn't required for many careers. College isn't a wise choice for everyone smart or not.

 

[TiGeo]

There's nothing quite like explaining to everyone you know when they ask what school your son is going to and you say "he's not". It's a systemic problem in society that that going to college is the norm.

 

[Astro14]

Folks - it's a fine line talking about the cost of college without discussing the political context in which it takes place, particularly since the cost of college, and loan forgiveness, have become campaign points. I've removed the political posts, please avoid crossing back into that discussion.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Instead of going to college? This had been discussed and done right, is a possibility. He'd have to get his own car, car insurance, etc..

It doesn't have to be one or the other. See if you have any local employers that offer tuition reimbursement as a benefit. In my area there are multiple manufacturing companies that offer this benefit. I have a few coworkers that got their degrees for little to no expense by taking 1 or 2 classes at a time and getting reimbursed by the company.

 

[Jdeere562]

My story. Father of 3. My oldest is in a small state college (sophomore). Here in VA, that is about $27K all-in for a year which is the best way to look at it IMHO, many focus on tuition only. Tuition alone is about $13K so room/board is actually more. When I went to a small VA state school in 1991, my parents were paying about $8K all-in for a year. My wife and I's parents both paid all of our college expense less spending money/summer job. I paid my own grad school/masters but living at home/working. We pay for his with college savings we started when he was born plus money gifted us by parents and it has worked out to just about cover all of it. My middle son is a senior in HS and will be working/not going to college; he is a technician in training at a GMC dealer and he went the technical route in HS. My youngest is 13 and we'll figure that out when the time comes. The reason college in-part costs what it does, to me, is based mainly on the fact that loans exist to pay for it easily so what economic/market driver is there for it to not cost what it does? If there were no student loans, I can assure you it would cost much less than it does. Just like vehicles. Just like houses. Just like health care.

This post is classic...."half a brain"...maybe if folks didn't say garbage like this more kids would look at trades but b/c folks like this like to comment, effectively, that it's for the dumb kids...well....everyone should go to college right? And so the cycle continues....

Poor choice of words on my part. I meant no disrespect. Apologies sent to whoever I offended.

I spent the first 15 years of my life in "the trades" and it was respectable living. Went to auto/diesel school after graduation and learned a little. Nothing beats hands on with one of the older boys. Great mechanic and taught me more than school ever did.

Better choice of words maybe? If you are not a druggie, motivated and willing to work and be there on time every day, you can make a decent living and be in high demand. I never had to look for a job. It was a matter of where I wanted to work.

 

[PWMDMD]

Trade schools are a pretty good bargain these days.

Half a brain and no schooling needed. Many businesses have apprenticeships. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC, etc.
Just have a good work ethic and they will train you. Few years into the job and you can make some fairly good $.

Not DR. $ for sure, however you can make a decent living.

My brother went into the Air Force after high school and learned HVAC. He did residential for a while and then started working for research science companies that had lots of cold rooms for product storage. He worked his way up and basically made well into 6-figures working a 9-5 M-F with some on-call - the cold rooms had alarms and he'd occasionally get called in the middle of the night because a cold room went down and there were millions of dollars worth of product inside. No hot attics, no dirty basements, no long hours during heat and cold waves, and a great salary and benefits. He even met his soon-to-be ex-wife there who was an MBA executive.

At 50 he is basically semi-retired. He owns his own home outright, he has two kids in private colleges with no loans, he has snowmobiles and ATVs and a boat and he's in Atlantis right now with his family. Between my school loans, time out of the workforce while in school, and the time it takes to build a business, he is 5 years older than me but really about 20 years ahead of me and I estimate I'll be where he is around 65.
|
It's hard to argue he hasn't made really great decisions learning a trade.

 

[Astro14]

My brother went into the Air Force after high school and learned HVAC. He did residential for a while and then started working for research science companies that had lots of cold rooms for product storage. He worked his way up and basically made well into 6-figures working a 9-5 M-F with some on-call - the cold rooms had alarms and he'd occasionally get called in the middle of the night because a cold room went down and there were millions of dollars worth of product inside. No hot attics, no dirty basements, no long hours during heat and cold waves, and a great salary and benefits. He even met his soon-to-be ex-wife there who was an MBA executive.

At 50 he is basically semi-retired. He owns his own home outright, he has two kids in private colleges with no loans, he has snowmobiles and ATVs and a boat and he's in Atlantis right now with his family. Between my school loans, time out of the workforce while in school, and the time it takes to build a business, he is 5 years older than me but really about 20 years ahead of me and I estimate I'll be where he is around 65.
|
It's hard to argue he hasn't made really great decisions learning a trade.

I love that story.

While I am a fan of a true liberal arts education; learning how to think critically, how to write, and understanding art, literature, science, and math, not everyone should go to college.

The guy who did some electrical work for me many years ago, started in the trade right out of high school, grew his business, had a couple dozen employees when he installed the 220v circuits in my garage.

He owns a lovely house, and a great big boat. He’s an avid fisherman.

He’s a bit younger than me, sold his business a few years ago and has retired.

He never went to college, and yet I consider him exceptionally successful. He spends his days doing what he enjoys - fishing.

 

[4WD]

I love that story.

While I am a fan of a true liberal arts education; learning how to think critically, how to write, and understanding art, literature, science, and math, not everyone should go to college.

The guy who did some electrical work for me many years ago, started in the trade right out of high school, grew his business, had a couple dozen employees when he installed the 220v circuits in my garage.

He owns a lovely house, and a great big boat. He’s an avid fisherman.

He’s a bit younger than me, sold his business a few years ago and has retired.

He never went to college, and yet I consider him exceptionally successful. He spends his days doing what he enjoys - fishing.

We have a popular smokehouse here - licensed to print money . Sometimes leaving I look at the rows of big condensers on tall platforms (ceiling high for a large chilled building).
Then I think there’s got to be a “go to guy” for this system …

 

[chrlsful]

for me, or to me - college is an socialization experience. I felt the 12 yrs of school B4 then was just a basic interruption of a good life. Yes, it was an indoctrination process: how to not pull the pig tails of the lill girl in frnt of me, spend some time in concentration on a subject, etc. And I could have done that in a more rewarding and very different way, one more productive to society & (our) kids, way shorter, mixed w/other age appropriate & enriching experiences

The 1st few yrs of college much the same. However it added 'doing that" with those very different then myself (away from my typical/home community). This exposed me to more, other ways I might not have hada chance to gain. I believe ina 'liberal arts' (a lill of everything) education. Again there can be better ways but as a large system for doing these things it can work. By the end of this time I hada better idea of 'careers'. Grad school was a great experience as I pursued my interest. It seems the focus changed a bit and became fine tuning my 'practice' (how to do 'it', do it well, see proficiency, cutting edge tech (actually so advanced it took society & my field 30, 40 yrs + to catch up w/that). Now...
the last degree offered was not of interest to me (develops leadership). It was too much of a change in personality to me (also some arrogance by those w/it). Teams are more interesting then getting out in front to me.

Today is very different. Things are so tough for those same young ppl. Violence gig economy, expansion of multinationals. For them I think its just important 'to get going' in something. They will have 3 of 4 careers while my dad had one job, I several jobs. A very different type of thing~

I think we need a major change in a 200 yr old method (Horace Mann) or institution (how we 'school'). Not "Shall I go?" or "Not go". And
that's part of the problem, it seems to construct heard mind (yes/no, not analysis & recreate for betterment). HTH

 

[andrew_j]

Sticker price is vastly different than reality. Good luck

 

[andrew_j]

It's not going to get any cheaper. Too bad more are not going into the trades as an alternative. There's plenty of work available.

Trades at are excellent 20-40s however above that age physically it takes its toll.

 

[TiGeo]

Trades at are excellent 20-40s however above that age physically it takes its toll.

Hopefully by that time you have moved on into more of the management/owernship end of it.

 

[chrlsful]

but, butbut, that's a whole new field (most make in any 'practice'. Sometimes the peter principal 8^ )

 

[andrew_j]

Hopefully by that time you have moved on into more of the management/owernship end of it.

That is challenge , those roles are fewer and many times the education and career path is not flowing you that way .

Lastly one injury and you’re done. Personally I think college and trades is best path.

 

[Dave Hess]

Sometimes hourly + OT makes as much as management.

Some trades wear your body out in 20 years, theres some trades that won’t kill your body.

 

[PWMDMD]

Trades at are excellent 20-40s however above that age physically it takes its toll.

Same for many professions that require higher education and even the ones that seem easy on the body. People think dentistry is easy on the body because "you sit all day". No, you hold very specific and controlled positions for long periods of time while you simultaneously focus on every body/hand movement down to tiny fractions of a mm. I can bench +300 lbs, squat and deadlift +400 lbs, and walk out of the office many days feeling physically sore and exhausted. I started lifting because even in my early 30s I was starting to get chronic back and neck pain. Add in things like arthritis/back and neck pain and it gets difficult to do this into your 60s.

While I was at Universal on vacation my partner had an OR case for a 12-year-old that started at 8:30 am and ended at 5:20 pm - he stood the entire case hunched over and took one bathroom/protein bar break around 1 pm. That's hard to do even into your 50s. Thankfully, those cases are really few but they happen.