Paid posters for Auto Rx

[Familyguy]

I suspect it's a combination of "payback" and the fact that the same group of people (on both sides of the fence) are interested in the subject matter (oil additives).

If a certain few could find a way to dispense with the juvenile name calling, I could care less if they "show up on cue." We're all here (well, most of us...) to learn.

Best,

 

[rkpatt]

If the product is that great , the deal would have been done long ago .

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Several companies have tried to buy Frank out, one being the major competitor to BITOG but at a ludicrously low price. Oil companies approached Frank to use RX as a replacement additive in oil, but won't pay the cost of manufacture let alone Frank making a profit which he is entitled to do. This is all public knowledge and has been for years.


Perhaps they were only prepared to pay what it was worth?

 

[dkryan]

Originally Posted By: Mamala Bay
Originally Posted By: dkryan
Let's just ban Auto-RX and MMO postings by ANYONE from now on.

And c3po.



Dumb - ...


Far less than dumb, when:

BITOG has morphed into personal attacks as the rule rather than the exception

posters have become imposters and their credibility is at or below zero (c3po), especially when they scam fellow BITOGers with bogus product reviews after having had their pockets lined

the "confession" is offered up only as part of an agenda

 

[Cutehumor]

Team MMO vs Team Auto-rx? who are you?

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Several companies have tried to buy Frank out, one being the major competitor to BITOG but at a ludicrously low price. Oil companies approached Frank to use RX as a replacement additive in oil, but won't pay the cost of manufacture let alone Frank making a profit which he is entitled to do. This is all public knowledge and has been for years.


Perhaps they were only prepared to pay what it was worth?


OOOH!! Burn!


Not entirely posted as a Burn.
I was thinking that, Arx might be marketed along the lines of Chevron's Techron Gas additive.
Nobody knew of 'Techron' until Chevron Gave it away in their Gasoline. If Arx was advertised as an additive on brand name oil, the Straight Arx might well have received a Big Boost also. Kind of a Loss Leader.
But everything has a price limit, and as it is, I personally think Arx is overpriced for what it does, especially as it did nothing for me.

 

[Mystic]

The number one thing I would like to see is for bobistheoilguy.com to return to what I remember. Maybe my memory is bad but I remember this being a friendly place where people could have discussions about motor oils, oil filters, etc. Maybe that is not realistic since back in those days there were a little over 1000 members and now there are several thousand members. But more polite conversation would be welcomed.

Back in the days when Auto-RX was very popular here there seemed to be a tendency for people to try to drive away discussions about anything else. And remember, I am saying this as a former very strong Auto-RX supporter. Maybe now people will try to drive away discussions on any product other than MMO. Can we freely discuss any product?

I don't want to see bans on the discussion of anything (other than things like religion and politics of course). It is interesting to find out about products that I knew nothing about. Maybe that unknown product is worthless but it adds to the interest here to find out about new things. Discussion of any one product should not dominate everything else. Am I wrong?

I try to be as open and honest as I can be. I don't like secret agendas and secret paid promoters of products. When I found out that there was a secret paid promoter of Auto-RX here (by his own confession) I did not feel like using Auto-RX anymore. And frankly, we needed discussion about more products than just Auto-RX. And more products need to be discussed than just MMO, which seems to be the new darling here.

Now don't get me wrong. If MMO proves to be the answer to internal engine cleaning that we have been seeking I will us it too. But I don't think the proof is there quite yet. Unless and until that proof arrives I think we should discuss several products.

Most of all can we please have polite conversation here and not personal attacks? If you don't like the message, attack the message, not the messenger.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
The number one thing I would like to see is for bobistheoilguy.com to return to what I remember. Maybe my memory is bad but I remember this being a friendly place where people could have discussions about motor oils, oil filters, etc. Maybe that is not realistic since back in those days there were a little over 1000 members and now there are several thousand members. But more polite conversation would be welcomed.

Back in the days when Auto-RX was very popular here there seemed to be a tendency for people to try to drive away discussions about anything else. And remember, I am saying this as a former very strong Auto-RX supporter. Maybe now people will try to drive away discussions on any product other than MMO. Can we freely discuss any product?

I don't want to see bans on the discussion of anything (other than things like religion and politics of course). It is interesting to find out about products that I knew nothing about. Maybe that unknown product is worthless but it adds to the interest here to find out about new things. Discussion of any one product should not dominate everything else. Am I wrong?

I try to be as open and honest as I can be. I don't like secret agendas and secret paid promoters of products. When I found out that there was a secret paid promoter of Auto-RX here (by his own confession) I did not feel like using Auto-RX anymore. And frankly, we needed discussion about more products than just Auto-RX. And more products need to be discussed than just MMO, which seems to be the new darling here.

Now don't get me wrong. If MMO proves to be the answer to internal engine cleaning that we have been seeking I will us it too. But I don't think the proof is there quite yet. Unless and until that proof arrives I think we should discuss several products.

Most of all can we please have polite conversation here and not personal attacks? If you don't like the message, attack the message, not the messenger.


I agree that we need to freely discuss any oil additive in this section without attacking it. There was a thread called Rislone Versus MMO, and the discussion was civil, and that's the way it should be, I just made a post in a thread called Seafoam versus MMO and basically said that since I had not used Seafoam I could not make a comment, and since I have not used Seafoam I did not say that MMO is a better product.

It is not my purpose or I hope anyone else's to make the oil additive section look like the MMO Section, I think the reason you are seeing so many posts and threads about MMO is because other members are talking about there experiences with the product. I used MMO based on what a member here told me about the product and I have given my observations about MMO, does that mean you should go buy MMO, actually it does not, hopefully we can read members observations about MMO and other oil additives and then make up our own minds as to whether or not we want to buy the product.

I did want to make a comment about Neutra, which is a sponsored product, I did post a pic I found in the oil additive section and I did post it in the thread called ARX & Aluminum Engines, it seems like a great product but we do not see the Schaeffer's Rep in the oil additive section as much as we saw represenatives of arx, maybe Schaeffer's sells so much product that they just do not venture much into the oil additive section.

I really do not believe that MMO or any other oil additive is going to be the answer to internal engine cleaning, meaning that some of us may have engines that are so dirty that it could be beyond any oil additive to clean the engine up.

As far as discussions about other oil additives, I believe the discussions will only grow if members are actually using the oil additive that is discussed, it would be nice if all of us would only make a comment about an oil additive being discussed if we have actually used it, I feel that bashing an oil additive when you know that you have not used it is wrong.

 

[MolaKule]

I am not trying to be supercritical here c3po, but you could help us out by using periods instead of commas for readability.

Quote:
Actually, from what I have read on this board, ARX does not show up in a UOA, kind of makes me wonder what it can do in an engine.


You are correct.

Do base oils show up in a UOA (except for some inferential viscosity numbers)? Make me wonder as to what base oils can do in an engine as well.

Quote:
...ironically, the member who called me out as being a paid poster was the same guy who started this thread.


And in the spirit of full disclosure, did you and the thread starter ever have discussions about ARX via PM's or otherwise?

Quote:
Here it goes guys, I was talking with Frank Miller back in August of 2008 and he said look I am going to send you a case of arx, which is 24 bottles for all of the nice posts you have done about arx, I turned around and bought another case and he threw in 6 more bottles for free, at that time there was no mention of being given the free arx to keep posting about the product, I did thank Frank and I told him I would continue to post about my observations with arx,


Did Frank ever tell you, in any email, contract or other written statement, that the free 30 bottles was in any way an inducement for making positive statements, and only positive statements, about Auto-RX?

Quote:
I will not believe any statements from arx unless I can see 3rd party tests and we can all check the data and come too our own conclusions, without tests your statements mean nothing too me.


Will you apply the same criteria to other OTC additives as well, including MMO, Rislone, etc?

Quote:
I actually feel the maintenance dose is beneficial, the question I ask is to back up your claims with tests from an independent lab, I cannot take 3rd party tests seriously because there are too many variables.


OK, so you want third party tests (previous post) to verify ARX's claims, but you can't take them seriously (next post) because there are too many variables? Which is it?

Did you mean to say that unless independant lab tests are done for BOTH MMO and ARX, you will not accept any claims made by EITHER MMO or ARX?

Quote:
Of course I turned around and bought 24 bottles from Frank and he added in 6 more bottles, so you can see that with 30 free bottles of arx I made auto-rx sound good but I kind of left out the MMO part, gives Frank's hatred of MMO



I don't understand this response. In your view of history, did Frank criticize MMO because it was a competing product, or was it because he felt you didn't provide all the information about the concurrent use of MMO with ARX? I.E., was he upset that you left out pertinent data and did not disclose your use of MMO?

Quote:
I agree with your statement from my observations, arx loaded up my oil filters, I went through 22 oil filters in 24,000 miles.

Since using MMO, I have not had one clogged up oil filter, my observations tell me that MMO is dissolving the crud more so it does not stop up the oil filter. My thoughts on this are that MMO is helping arx out.


You atually changed a filter every 1100 miles? Were you getting oil pressure fluctuations that required you to do this?

I think I understand what you were trying to show in the ARX & MMO thread. I think you were trying to show that ARX when used with MMO was somewhat synergistic.

I don't know what really transpired between you and Frank Miller, but the language you seem to portray (IMHO) in all your threads is that you are looking for a fight because of some possible misunderstanding as to your agreement.

In terms of chemistry, I don't know how you can separate out the advantages of any one OTC oil component when you have introduced another variable into the equation, which is why I and many others have suggested (note, suggested, not coerced) that only one cleaner be used at a time.

Now a laboratory test (engine stand with controlled temps, known engine metallurgy, etc) might use the following procedure to determine this:

1. Analyze clean base oil and run a base 5W30 oil (say conentional mineral oil) and analyze the oil with every available anlytical method known and accepted in the industry; analyze temp deltas and torque and horsepower, to get a baseline
2. Run the base 5W30 oil until it sludges and analyze oil and probe engine parts to see where sludge exists; one may have to run an extreme accelerated test to do this,
3. Run the base 5W30 oil with ARX with suggested ARX documented regime,
4. analyze oil and scope engine to see if and where cleaning occurred

Tear down engine and analyze parts.

Place new engine on stand with identical parts.

21. Run the same 5W30 oil (say conentional mineral oil) and analyze the oil with every available anlytical method known and accepted in the industry; analyze temp deltas and torque and horsepower, to get a baseline
22. Run the base 5W30 oil until it sludges and analyze oil and probe engine parts to see where sludge exists; one may have to run an extreme accelerated test to do this,
23. Run the base 5W30 oil with MMO with suggested MMO documented regime,
24. analyze oil and scope engine to see if and where cleaning occurred

Tear down engine and analyze parts.

Place new engine on stand with identical parts.

31. Run the same 5W30 oil (say conentional mineral oil) and analyze the oil with every available anlytical method known and accepted in the industry; analyze temp deltas and torque and horsepower, to get a baseline
32. Run the base 5W30 oil until it sludges and analyze oil and probe engine parts to see where sludge exists; one may have to run an extreme accelerated test to do this,
33. Run the base 5W30 oil with ARX and MMO with suggested ARX and MMO documented regime, (Question: when do you introduce MMO?)
34. analyze oil and scope engine to see if and where cleaning occurred.

Tear down engine and analyze parts. Is the engine cleaner with the mix than with separate components?

I think you can see where this is going.

No small or even medium sized company could afford this test.

So until the above test is done, most of the remarks or results regarding ARX or MMO ARE third party tests done by members.

There is nothing wrong with using a product and reporting your observations and opinions about the product, but geeze, the mudslinging, inuendos, strawmen arguments, and headbanging should really cease.

Just my HO.

 

[Mystic]

This is really a good reply, MolaKule. I don't think there is much that I could add.

 

[c3po]

: MMO + QS syn. blend
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 35166
Loc: Pottstown, PA
You won't notice any ill effects ..but you'll find out with the UOA perhaps. I think mmo is heavier than ATF ..which I think is 10 weight (equiv) ..but you don't know if it stays a little heavier than ATF.

quote:We'll see [Smile]

That's the attitude!! Take the hit for the team!!! Run the gauntlet and take your lumps if there are any!!

I personally love the stuff ...but in my oil fired boiler ..and occasionally in the fuel tank. [Smile]

MMO in fuel
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 35166
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Hey ..it was just an experiment to see, more or less, what DID NOT happen. MMO has been trashed here as snake oil. I said, "hmmm...well lets just see what happens here". I got pleasently surprised ..and had the opportunity to show what (also) did not happen with the heads off.

So I would say, by all means, use it as it is recommended. There are other fine products that do their job ..and do it well ...but you mainly don't have to fear the MMO boogeyman.

That's what everyone should be reading into my excursions with excessive additive use.

Yes, being cheap, it makes it a little more fun.

Neutra purge for lawn mower oil? Y/N?
MolaKule


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 10231
Loc: Midwest Same here, FWIW, I too am finding that Neutra is very versatile cleaner.

I use it as a "before oil-change" engine flush twice a year in all outdoor equipment and
automotive engines.

A cleaner engine is certainly a more efficient engine.

Re: A-RX in Riding mower engine
MolaKule


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 10231
Loc: Midwest I use one ounce as a maintenance dose in all my ODE stuff.

There's not a lot to get dirty in a small air-cooled engine, except for the ring pack. I like to keep the ring pack free to insure top compression and good ring sealing.

I find it amazing that Gary Allan says there is no problems with running MMO in the fuel and oil, but in Gary's defense he does like arx better than MMO. I will have to go with Gary's analysis of MMO since he has used the product.

Molakule, I see that you have used Neutra in your engines and outdoor equipment, but I could not find any posts where you have stated that you used arx in your engine, any reason you would favor Neutra over arx in your engine. I see you have used arx as a maintenance dose in your outdoor equipment, aren't you worried about Neutra and arx competing against one another in your outdoor equipment.

I never had any discussions with the member who started this thread.

As far as independent tests, since Gary Allan loves MMO and I am getting good results, so I see no need to test MMO.

Molakule, I will say that Neutra has been around for 40 years, it can be used in the gas and oil just like MMO, therefore since arx has only been around for 10 years or so and cannot be used in the gas, I feel that Neutra and MMO have more in common than arx and Neutra.

I also gather since you put Neutra into your car engines as opposed to arx then maybe you think Neutra is a superior product to arx or maybe it does the same thing as arx but at a cheaper price.

I wanted to emphasize here that the post I found about Gary Allan and MMO was back in 2005 and even back then Gary Allan liked arx better than MMO when it comes to engines, that's his opinion, but he did say that MMO would not hurt an engine and my feeling is that he meant that statement as long as the MMO was not overdosed in the engine.

 

[MolaKule]

c3po, you need to use the quoting button so we can distinguish what other people have stated and what your own comments/opinions are. I have had a difficult time separating the two.

You might say for example: QUote from Molecule
Quote:
.....


My comment: ........

Quote:
Molakule, I see that you have used Neutra in your engines and outdoor equipment, but I could not find any posts where you have stated that you used arx in your engine, any reason you would favor Neutra over arx in your engine. I see you have used arx as a maintenance dose in your outdoor equipment, aren't you worried about Neutra and arx competing against one another in your outdoor equipment.

I never had any discussions with the member who started this thread.

As far as independent tests, since Gary Allan loves MMO and I am getting good results, so I see no need to test MMO.

Molakule, I will say that Neutra has been around for 40 years, it can be used in the gas and oil just like MMO, therefore since arx has only been around for 10 years or so and cannot be used in the gas, I feel that Neutra and MMO have more in common than arx and Neutra.

I also gather since you put Neutra into your car engines as opposed to arx then maybe you think Neutra is a superior product to arx or maybe it does the same thing as arx but at a cheaper price.


I have posted on BITOG that I had used ARX in the oil for other than maintenance doses. In my past two Suburbans with SB 350's which were bought used, I purchased and used ARX and it cleaned the engines as indicated by pulled oil pans, and compression restoration. I have also stated that the maintenance doses seem to increase oil lubricity since my mileage went up, which I attributed that result to the only OTC add which was ARX.

BTW, in addition to my academic training, I am a wrenchead as well.

AT one time I ordered (and payed for in full) 5 gallons of ARX for testing as a potential additive in our PCMO's. I found ARX to be an excellent detergent and cleaner, but at the time, we coud not afford to incorporate this component without hurting our pricing sructure for lubes. Franks ARX formulation was both innovative and passed all our tests for engine cleanliness. His chemistry was based on a mix of esters that I believe to be very approriate for cleaning of engines, transmissions, and other machines. As I too was an entrapenuer, I thought his Internet sales situation was unique and appropriate for educating potential customers.

Neutra History: My experience with Neutra goes back to when Bob Winters (the original BOBIstheOilguy) introduced me to it since he was a rep for Schaeffer's at the time. I lived on a mini-ranch in Kansas at the time and bought a small truckload of lubes and stuff to test and try out. I also gave away some product to local ranchers to get them interested and help Bob's sales. Bob is a fantastic guy and a great backyard experimentor.

I also did some flammability and deposit testing with Neutra and LC20, since we had a discussion going on here about deposits and flash points of the two products. It was a fun test.

Quote:
Molakule, I will say that Neutra has been around for 40 years, it can be used in the gas and oil just like MMO, therefore since arx has only been around for 10 years or so and cannot be used in the gas, I feel that Neutra and MMO have more in common than arx and Neutra.


Sorry dude, I fail to see the logic here. Time in the market has nothing to do with performance. Neutra, MMO, and ARX are three entirely different chemistries. Neutra and MMO are what many like to call "aromatic hydrocarbon" solvents (AHS). The only correlation between Neutra and MMO is that they are AHS, old school chemistries, and can be used both in engine oil and fuel systems.

ARX is a tri-ester formulation for cleaning engines, hydraulics, trannies, and gear boxes using more modern chemistries.

If you do some more data and quote mining, you will see these same statements used over and over.

Quote:
I also gather since you put Neutra into your car engines as opposed to arx then maybe you think Neutra is a superior product to arx or maybe it does the same thing as arx but at a cheaper price.


Don't assume anything about my intentions or history.

Before I knew anything about ARX I used LC20 and Neutra in lubricating oils, and FP60 and Neutra in my fuels.

When I see a more modern chemistry come on the scene, I try to test it to see if my testing supports the claims made.

I don't think Neutra OR MMO will ruin your engine or fuel system in the prescibed dosages. But what scares me is this mentality of, "a little bit more than prescribed wont hurt," or "what the heck!"

I think ARX does what it says it will do.

I think all cleaners have their limitations. (Remember Dirty Harry?)

My preference is to use and test non-carcinogenic, bio-degradeable substances.

Quote:
As far as independent tests, since Gary Allan loves MMO and I am getting good results, so I see no need to test MMO.


So if I hear you correctly, you will not require OR state that either Turtle Wax/MMO NOR ARX should have to have independent testing done.

I would like to see it happen, but the costs are so high it ain't gonna happen.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
I wanted to emphasize here that the post I found about Gary Allan and MMO was back in 2005 and even back then Gary Allan liked arx better than MMO when it comes to engines, that's his opinion, but he did say that MMO would not hurt an engine and my feeling is that he meant that statement as long as the MMO was not overdosed in the engine.


I agree and I stated that above.

I made a similar statement about using GL5 differential gear lubes in Manual Transmissions; I said it won't kill your tranny but it is NOT the optimum lube for it.


As long as you get permission from the author to use offline quotes or pull from PM's I think you are safe.

I have never met Gary Allan but from what I have read he is a pretty straightforward dude.

.

The kinda person you would like have at a party to liven things up.

 

[c3po]

I don't think Neutra OR MMO will ruin your engine or fuel system in the prescibed dosages. But what scares me is this mentality of, "a little bit more than prescribed wont hurt," or "what the heck!" This is Molakules Quotte!

I think ARX does what it says it will do.


Molakule, I need to learn how to do the quote thing, I agree with your above statement about MMO, and I am 100% against anyone adding more than the prescribed amount of MMO to there oil or fuel.

As far as arx goes, I thought it would totally clean up my engine, and it did not, for quite a few reasons, but I found that MMO cleaned up the rest of my engine.

There is no doubt that you know what you are talking about as far as arx and other oil additives, but if everything you have said in the past about arx and I read it for the 1st time I am still a tad puzzled why many members have not been satisfied with arx and now some members seem to be getting results with MMO.

There has to be a reason that we are not talking much about arx, and are now talking about other oil additives, if there are limitations to arx, have you told Frank Miller what he can do with his product to make it better.

 

[Gary Allan]

I've liked Auto-Rx since I used it on my fogging and ticking 3.0 minivan. I had a lingering HLA noise that was totally unique in my experience. Most HLA/lifter noises are either at immediate start up (until pressure is up), when cold and oil takes an easier path than through the clogged lifter ..or at hot lower viscosity state where one is draining out too fast.

This one had my head spinning. Started totally quiet and then one HLA would start ticking ..then progressively to the point where all were ticking ..then retreat almost to all being quiet ..and then repeat. This was at idle when the cold weather set in. It would not stop until the sump cycled so many times. It did not matter whether it was 5w-30 or 15w-50 ..conventional or M1. In 45f ambient you would literally sit there for 5 minutes for the condition to subside. Additionally, somewhere around 135k miles, while idling in summer heat, the valve seals began to leak turning it into a fogger if any idling was part of the driving event when warm. My wife got a new Wrangler and this became my daily driver.

In 2002 I came here. I was fully aware of the seal replacement that often fixed the fogging condition that plagued the pre-94 3.0, but resisted paying the $200 to have it done. I did find that some oils fogged less than others. Formula Shell produced the least ..PYB instantly produced the condition right after the oil change.

On the matter of the peculiar HLA ticking, I tried Gunk Engine Flush, Seafoam (iirc), Berkable 2+2 gum cutter, MMO ..and the various viscosity fluids trying to prevent the condition. None worked. At that point I learned of Auto-Rx, said what the heck and bought some. I engaged in the usual mistake of dumping it early due to seeing it darken the oil quickly. I repeated the process and, this time, followed the instructions. Upon the rinse phase I had many new (and more traditional) noises associated with startup. All of those noises retreated and the oddball "cyclical" HLA noise never appeared again. The fogging was eliminated in all except the most prolonged idling conditions.

At that point, I had no doubts at all of the product's effectiveness.

Since that experience, I've never used another agent with the thought of cleaning engine internals in mind.

In regard to my use of MMO from that point on, I got real tired of people saying that it would ruin something. That's when I did my massive MMO dosage. I even added two quarts of ATF to really slam the point home.

Both Molakule and Terry pointed out the folly of ATF. It probably had to do with ash formation.

That experiment was ONLY to show what would not, or rather did not occur. Other than some soot on the plugs, the vapor trail behind the vehicle produced no harmful effects that could be detected, including emissions testing (somewhat after treatment). Starting was improved from before treatment.

That's why I don't see any problem with MMO in limited quantities in fuel.

That's why I won't use anything other than Auto-Rx in oil.

That's about as clear as I can make it.

Beyond that, in my never ending quest to keep things stirred in our little world here, I did some "out of bounds" experiments with Auto-Rx. It piqued Frank's interest enough to contribute to the project with some reduced cost product. That association/collaboration formed a relationship of mutual goodwill that continues to today.

It's about simple.


Keep in mind that many of us are in the middle of a never ending evolutionary process of discovery here. We come here with certain paradigms ..and often have them destroyed before out eyes. Sometimes we discover something that forms an apparently valid school of thought, and hang out long enough to learn that it too needs realignment. That's the liability of not having formal educations in such matters. It's also the gift of learning things the hard way. You learn "why" some things are not done.

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

My preference is to use and test non-carcinogenic, bio-degradeable substances.


Used motor oil and gasoline are carcinogenic and not terribly biodegradable. So I'm a bit confused about the preference for a non-carcinogenic and biodegradable additive for same.

BTW, I generally follow your posts and find them to be quite useful. Thanks! That said, I don't feel particularly swayed by the arguments in favor of ARX and certainly not swayed when I consider the downright obnoxious behavior of some of its other boosters in this forum.

Best regards,

 

[MolaKule]

To quote, go to REPLY and then FULL REPLY or somesuch if you don't get a row of pushbuttons at the top.

At top the 5th from left is a button with quotation marks. Swipe your text and then paste them inside the
Quote:
text
thingy, or just paste into the reply window and then hit the quote button with the selected text.

Quote:
As far as arx goes, I thought it would totally clean up my engine, and it did not, for quite a few reasons, but I found that MMO cleaned up the rest of my engine.


Fine, if you think whatever works for you then use it. No one is holding a knife to anyone's throat.

I don't know what your expectations were of ARX, what your engine looked like inside before or after, or the context of your usage.

Some people have used an ARX regime and then an MMO regime and wolla, the engine is reported to be clean. Which one did it, I don't know. {Visions of Cousin Eddy explaining how his daughter's eyes became "uncrossed.")

Generally speaking, since the test may not have been well thought out or record keeping was lacking at each stage, who knows.

I like experimentation as well but without controlled conditions and before and after documentation, how can you prove anthing?

Was the engine borescoped? Was the oil analyzed for insolubles before and after, etc, etc.

Quote:

There is no doubt that you know what you are talking about as far as arx and other oil additives, but if everything you have said in the past about arx and I read it for the 1st time I am still a tad puzzled why many members have not been satisfied with arx and now some members seem to be getting results with MMO.


As I said, there is nothing wrong with using a product and reporting what you think happened and giving an opinion.

I have to disagree since my reading shows both pro and con comments about all products. What members have to realize is that if your pet OTC/external additive is criticized, don't take it personally. Someone may have real or anecdotal data that may dispute yours.

I do not pretend to speak for other members here and would prefer to let them voice their own opinions.


Quote:

There has to be a reason that we are not talking much about arx, and are now talking about other oil additives, if there are limitations to arx, have you told Frank Miller what he can do with his product to make it better.


You're repeating yourself.

Just like the news, some topical themes run for months and then it changes. First, they say coffee is bad, then they find anti-oxidants in coffee and then coffee is good. Personally, I like Jamaican Blue, but it is expensive.

As I stated, there are limitations to, and with ALL products.

1. I am not on Frank's payroll so that is not my rsponsibility

2. Frank has his own chemist

3. I am sure customer feedback has been given for any product improvements assuming they feel improvements are needed.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Used motor oil and gasoline are carcinogenic and not terribly biodegradable. So I'm a bit confused about the preference for a non-carcinogenic and biodegradable additive for same.

BTW, I generally follow your posts and find them to be quite useful. Thanks! That said, I don't feel particularly swayed by the arguments in favor of ARX and certainly not swayed when I consider the downright obnoxious behavior of some of its other boosters in this forum.


There is, unfortunately, obnoxious and ignorant behavior on both sides.

See new thread on biodegradeability in General discussions on PCMO Engine Oil - Gasoline.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

I have never met Gary Allan but from what I have read he is a pretty straightforward dude.

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Well, thank you for these kind words.

Quote:

The kinda person you would like have at a party to liven things up.

What are you trying to say here, pal??

Oddly, I think any meeting between other members and myself would be somewhat unremarkable. Pleasant, surely, but not the spectacle one might think.

No one there is exactly what he seems. But then, who is? -G'Kar

 

[Johnny]

I've had the solution to this whole problem of which additive is best for years. Don't use additives. Buy a well formulated motor oil and change it on a regular basis. It is just that simple guys. I've been doing that for over 50 years and I have never had a sludged or dirty engine and any car I've owned.

I do use fuel additives per the dose recommended only because gasoline is one of the nastiest substances know to man. If gasoline were invented today, the EPA would outlaw it.

Mystic and MolaKule, good post.

 

[c3po]

Quote:
I don't think Neutra OR MMO will ruin your engine or fuel system in the prescibed dosages. But what scares me is this mentality of, "a little bit more than prescribed wont hurt," or "what the heck!"

I think ARX does what it says it will do.