Pacific Palisades Wildfire

[IndyIan]

I'm no expert on wild fires or L.A. infrastructure, but Australia has been dealing with fires like this for decades, in areas that have much less water and that have no fire hydrants. I presume they focus more on fire and fuel management, fire resistant housing and infrastructure, and emergency planning. I suspect in many cases with fire in strong winds, the amount of water that comes out of a fire hydrant, or 100 fire hydrants, is basically useless. The fire will be over them or around them anyways.
I do know some places in Australia are evacuated on days where the conditions make a fire unfightable, before a fire even starts, because if it does there will not be time to escape. That is the reality of the vegetation and geography in some areas, don't like it? don't live there.

 

[BISCUT]

I'm no expert on wild fires or L.A. infrastructure, but Australia has been dealing with fires like this for decades, in areas that have much less water and that have no fire hydrants. I presume they focus more on fire and fuel management, fire resistant housing and infrastructure, and emergency planning. I suspect in many cases with fire in strong winds, the amount of water that comes out of a fire hydrant, or 100 fire hydrants, is basically useless. The fire will be over them or around them anyways.
I do know some places in Australia are evacuated on days where the conditions make a fire unfightable, before a fire even starts, because if it does there will not be time to escape. That is the reality of the vegetation and geography in some areas, don't like it? don't live there.

IN other words, they addressed the issue and implemented mitigation strategies. That is what Gov't is responsible to do!

 

[IndyIan]

IN other words, they addressed the issue and implemented mitigation strategies. That is what Gov't is responsible to do!

Yes, it's hard to convince people the reality of the situation, and often unpopular, and there always seems to be a politician that will say whatever people want to hear, and people that vote for them. Even if it contradicts reality and what the people knowledgeable in the field say should be done....
Sometimes restrictive planning is necessary, as many people won't look at the bigger picture of living in areas with unstoppable natural disasters.

 

[edyvw]

One time, at band camp....

So, back to a fact that is relevant. The firefighters have stated they need water! Can't fight fire without it. THis bag of has been kicked down the road by politicians for decades. This is a prime example of how Gov't has failed us all. This is a pillar of Gov't; to protect its citizenry.

For the LA Mayor to land at the airport from Ghana and not have a single word to say? It's not like she didn't have a long flight to think of something to say. SHe showed zero empathy for her constituents.

Spare me of that. Let me explain you how that works on an example of third costliest fire in Colorado.
In May 2013 Black Forest in Colorado Springs got hit by fire. All pine and spruce trees. Dry as hell. When you walk there in May your nose dries like crazy. That May I think humidity almost hit 0% there.
Black Forest is nit incorporated. It is county. They don’t want bcs. taxes. Therefore CSFD doesn’t have station there. They had some small volunteer station and that is it. Bunch if EXPENSIVE homes! But, you know, taxes, evil government. Area where El paso Sheriff’s department has 5-7 calls weekly bcs. Sovereign citizens “exercising their “rights.”
Well, when fire hit, they did not have enough equipment nor man power to address it. By the time CSFD came, wind gusts were 80-90mph. 467 houses and 2 dead (refused to evacuate. One was shooting at LEO).
After that, planning start for what if! Before planning, all hell was thrown toward Colorado Springs government for slow response etc (Sheriff screwed up response) and why they don’t have appropriate fire stations etc. CSFD comes with proposals and price tag, and guess what happened? They ended up AGAIN with volunteer departments bcs. they don’t want to pay taxes to “evil government.”
So, will see what happens next time.
Government is not some alien body. Those are your neighbors. Ask your local fire station “what if,” what is their budget etc.
same is in my neighborhood. If police doesn’t show up in 34 seconds, immediately everyone is calling for community meeting. They put on a ballot measure to fund LEO, hire 200 more people, overwhelmingly declined.

 

[edyvw]

IN other words, they addressed the issue and implemented mitigation strategies. That is what Gov't is responsible to do!

CalFire and Australia work hand in hand. Measures implemented in Australia are pretty much the same as measures in CA. When there is fire season in Australia CalFore has go team to help them. Same when there is fire season in CA. Don’t be surprised if you see Australian fire fighters.
In the end, Australia also experiences huge fires regardless of prevention. If you think CA is not doing prevention, take a trip to any of these areas and you will see CalFire burning dead vegetation etc.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

There was a study and report just a few years back about the best places to live in the USA with least exposure to natural disasters. The final answer was "not many places at all." The only one location they were willing to suggest was someplace like north/central Arizona.

 

[alarmguy]

Spare me of that. Let me explain you how that works on an example of third costliest fire in Colorado.
In May 2013 Black Forest in Colorado Springs got hit by fire. All pine and spruce trees. Dry as hell. When you walk there in May your nose dries like crazy. That May I think humidity almost hit 0% there.
Black Forest is nit incorporated. It is county. They don’t want bcs. taxes. Therefore CSFD doesn’t have station there. They had some small volunteer station and that is it. Bunch if EXPENSIVE homes! But, you know, taxes, evil government. Area where El paso Sheriff’s department has 5-7 calls weekly bcs. Sovereign citizens “exercising their “rights.”
Well, when fire hit, they did not have enough equipment nor man power to address it. By the time CSFD came, wind gusts were 80-90mph. 467 houses and 2 dead (refused to evacuate. One was shooting at LEO).
After that, planning start for what if! Before planning, all hell was thrown toward Colorado Springs government for slow response etc (Sheriff screwed up response) and why they don’t have appropriate fire stations etc. CSFD comes with proposals and price tag, and guess what happened? They ended up AGAIN with volunteer departments bcs. they don’t want to pay taxes to “evil government.”
So, will see what happens next time.
Government is not some alien body. Those are your neighbors. Ask your local fire station “what if,” what is their budget etc.
same is in my neighborhood. If police doesn’t show up in 34 seconds, immediately everyone is calling for community meeting. They put on a ballot measure to fund LEO, hire 200 more people, overwhelmingly declined.

Nice post and I do feel sympathy for the people in CA.
But the fact of life is, no one and nothing can prevent everything from harming you or your home.

I think it's stupid to blame hard working public servants anytime something goes wrong in society.
Its all comes down to what the public wants to spend for something that may or may not ever happen.
I hate the blame game. It's a fire, historic for that area. Drives me crazy that people expect others to predict, fund and plan for occurrences that are impossible to predict and at what point of this planning do the costs become so great that it makes it impossible for people to afford to live?
As you posted, it's a horrible fire fanned by, at the time winds up to NINTY MPH. I mean, what the heck does it help blaming others?

 

[alarmguy]

There was a study and report just a few years back about the best places to live in the USA with least exposure to natural disasters. The final answer was "not many places at all." The only one location they were willing to suggest was someplace like north/central Arizona.

Yeah, but I have to say, Ive been on this earth so far 60+ years. Never had a natural disaster.
Long Island New York, South Carolina and now North Carolina.

I mean, there are ways to lesson exposure in any state and natural disasters are not as great as they might seem.
Our country is a huge land mass so the majority will never suffer one either. Social Media, taking into landmass exposes everything that takes place coast to coast and border to border. No doubt CA is a powder keg and always has been for fire and earth quakes.
(just my feelings and lifetime exposure to not much in the way of disaster)

 

[edyvw]

Nice post and I do feel sympathy for the people in CA.
But the fact of life is, no one and nothing can prevent everything from harming you or your home.

I think it's stupid to blame hard working public servants anytime something goes wrong in society.
Its all comes down to what the public wants to spend for something that may or may not ever happen.
I hate the blame game. It's a fire, historic for that area. Drives me crazy that people expect others to predict, fund and plan for occurrences that are impossible to predict and at what point of this planning do the costs become so great that it makes it impossible for people to afford to live?
As you posted, it's a horrible fire fanned by, at the time winds up to NINTY MPH. I mean, what the heck does it help blaming others?

It is cheap politics. And then people who need to be angry at something get caught up in it.
This is by far most capable region to fight fires in the country, period. But no organization can fight something like this.

 

[4WD]

Many of the "disasters" - fires, hurricanes, etc - have wealthy real estate fingerprints on them. I'd love to live waterfront on the Gulf Coast - but not gonna. I'd love to live in the trees in CA - not gonna ...
People own their choices ...

 

[4WD]

We have an active "Fire Smart" program in our hood. A technician visits all the homeowners and politely give tips to the owners. Maybe this would not work near Hollywood as he might get shot. However, all it takes is a few homes who don't follow the Fire Smart program and their home sets off a fire storm. Removing pine needles from the roof, removing shrubbery from against the house and using fire proof siding all helps. In Fort Mac after the fire storm hit the city, they found homes that were Fire Smart safe, standing just fine amongst a street of burned down homes.

same with my friend who built a storm resistant house on the coast. It doubled the price but they cut SF with an empty nest to make it super strong. They have been through two big storms and it stood there. Now, the lots next door are empty and they like that too

 

[JeffKeryk]

This happens most every year in southern California. It's why they call it a, "Fire Season". The only question is how bad will it get. This time it would appear that it couldn't have gotten any worse.

FYI our Fire Season is May thru Oct.
But yes, this is likely to be the most expensive fire in our history. Not good.

 

[dishdude]

I love how all of a sudden everyone has become an expert on firefighting, fire hydrants and the history of California water management practices.

 

[Cropduster172]

It is cheap politics. And then people who need to be angry at something get caught up in it.
This is by far most capable region to fight fires in the country, period. But no organization can fight something like this.

Precisely what makes it the "most capable region in the country to fight fires"?

 

[4WD]

I love how all of a sudden everyone has become an expert on firefighting, fire hydrants and the history of California water management practices.

I don't think like that - I think of the fire triangle bcs you can work one or two sides of that way before you need the water ...

 

[Owen Lucas]

All the holes in the Swiss Cheese managed to line up perfectly this time. People will rebuild, and the same thing will happen again. It's only a matter of time. People are complaining across the country, just how much their homeowners insurance has gone up in the last couple of years. Many to the point of unaffordability. This is only going to make matters even worse.... Much worse.

There was a guy, (a citizen), being interviewed last night, who said that he has had 4 homes burn to the ground in the last 22 years in L.A. county...... He said he intends to rebuild yet again.

Maybe he lived too close to other homes for any mitigation to be effective, but after the 1st time I'd want to make sure my property was a fire proof as possible. There are landscaping techniques known as "firescaping" which is a "a strategic and intentional landscaping technique designed to mitigate the risk of wildfires. Firescaping involves creating a defensible space around homes using fire-resistant plants, proper spacing, and other landscaping practices." - Google

Fire resistant roofing is also helpful as I understand, many homes catch fire from embers and burning windblown branches landing on the roof. I presume many people have terracotta roof tiles in CA, which sounds rather fire resistant, but I think steel roofing might be the best. Remember that one house that survived the fires in Maui? Steel roof.

https://firesafemarin.org/create-a-fire-smart-yard/firescaping/#:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ildfire-shares-secrets-property-survived.html

Who builds a water system that allows fire hydrants to go dry, when they're needed the most?

I would be surprised to see if city does not install more mountain top reservoir tanks. I mean more tanks than necessary just to quell the publics fear. Afterall, some the taxpayers in these communities are supposedly paying $60k + a year in taxes for their $5M homes.

For a state that spent $20 BILLION on homelessness (with little to show for), installing these tanks and buying too much fire equipment should be no problem now that it's on the radar and politicians reelection campaigns are at risk.

Mayor of LA had foreign trip. What she supposed to do? Teleport herself immediately on Wednesday?

She's done for, that interviewer murdered her career on video. For her not to even use autonomic gov't speak even mindless as "thoughts and prayers" was amazing.

i worked on some projects post Black Forest fire here, and federal aid was sitting bcs. local Sheriff had his ego hurt during fire.

Did the sheriff get called out on this or reelected?

 

[ripcord]

Without cutting firebreaks and buffer zones and thinning the brush around urban areas, nothing will really mitigate the problem.

 

[slo town]

CalFire and Australia work hand in hand. Measures implemented in Australia are pretty much the same as measures in CA. When there is fire season in Australia CalFore has go team to help them. Same when there is fire season in CA. Don’t be surprised if you see Australian fire fighters.
In the end, Australia also experiences huge fires regardless of prevention. If you think CA is not doing prevention, take a trip to any of these areas and you will see CalFire burning dead vegetation etc.

Having lived in California since 1958 and traveled hundreds (if not thousands) of times to and through the Sierras and Coastal ranges over the decades I have never seen CalFire do this. If such a program exists it's "mouse nuts" in the big scheme of things.

Our last trip to Tahoe saw us drive through thousands and thousands of acres of dead trees because of some kind of bark beetle. Yet those dead trees still stand tall, so dry a static electricity spark could probably set them alight.

To do truly effective fire prevention would require an effort the size of the Great Depression's New Deal and would require clearing and/or thinning MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of acres. Even if such a program existed try doing that in the Big Sur area or up in the "wild west" in the Fort Bragg area. Not a freaking chance!

Scott

Edit: Let me add, one of my lifetime long, closest friends spent his entire career in the state's fire fighting business (I'm being vague on purpose). Fire fighting is reactive. The only "prevention" that occurs is when they purposely let fires run wild in order to let stuff burn "proactively". For sure they try and save communities and homes but often times anything in between is allowed to go up in smoke.

 

[billt460]

As you posted, it's a horrible fire fanned by, at the time winds up to NINTY MPH. I mean, what the heck does it help blaming others?

Wind make the fires that much more difficult, if not impossible to fight. No question about it.

However, that in itself has nothing to do with dry fire hoses, inept leadership, who won't even make a counseling statement, or answer questions to her own people. And slashed Fire Department budgets that were wasted on homelessness.

That isn't, "cheap politics". But rather completely incompetent leadership. Something California has been plagued with for decades. It's finally starting to catch up with them.

 

[Cropduster172]

CalFire and Australia work hand in hand. Measures implemented in Australia are pretty much the same as measures in CA. When there is fire season in Australia CalFore has go team to help them. Same when there is fire season in CA. Don’t be surprised if you see Australian fire fighters.
In the end, Australia also experiences huge fires regardless of prevention. If you think CA is not doing prevention, take a trip to any of these areas and you will see CalFire burning dead vegetation etc.

Yeah...no. There are and were never controlled burns in the ravines and hills in the populated areas of LA and San Diego. Nor were there efforts to remove overgrown and dried brush.
You're a bit confused about forest fires and wild fires in suburban areas.