If I am reading this correctly, the front toe was toe OUT - and by a lot!! That seems to be the only item not "in spec".
Out Of Alignment From Factory?
- Thread starter The Critic
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To answer some of the questions that were brought up. I am too lazy to go back and quote each person’s post today.
- No, I do not feel that I have driven over an above average number of potholes in the last 10,000 miles.
- There was no charge for this alignment check.
- The alignment check was done correctly. There are “sensor towers” mounted to the floor of the service bay. The process is as simple as mounting the sensors to the wheels via flexible “rubber band style” clamps, doing a rolling compensation, then scanning the vehicle’s VIN to ensure the correct yr/make/model selection. And I observed the entire process to confirm that the check was done correctly, so the information should be accurate.
- The car has an excessive toe-out condition. Based on the info we have, this car requires about 0.10 of toe-in as the preferred setting. I will gladly trade some tire wear (well, there shouldn’t be any measurable amount since toe-in IS the preferred setting per Toyota) for better straightline stability.
- No, I do not feel that I have driven over an above average number of potholes in the last 10,000 miles.
- There was no charge for this alignment check.
- The alignment check was done correctly. There are “sensor towers” mounted to the floor of the service bay. The process is as simple as mounting the sensors to the wheels via flexible “rubber band style” clamps, doing a rolling compensation, then scanning the vehicle’s VIN to ensure the correct yr/make/model selection. And I observed the entire process to confirm that the check was done correctly, so the information should be accurate.
- The car has an excessive toe-out condition. Based on the info we have, this car requires about 0.10 of toe-in as the preferred setting. I will gladly trade some tire wear (well, there shouldn’t be any measurable amount since toe-in IS the preferred setting per Toyota) for better straightline stability.
Kestas
Staff member
I believe one of the reasons most cars prefer slight toe-in is to lightly preload the front bearings.
A cambered wheel will steer in the direction of the camber - ala bicycle. Both front wheels are steering in same direction - LEFT. Does the car climb left over the centre crown? BTW, slight Toeout is prefered for backroad handling esp on FWD with a FWD weight bias and terminal understeer tune. Correcting to .05-.10 total toe in would improve straight-line stability. Where is the caster check - its tell tale to damage as most suspensions do not employ the necessary "brake force reaction rod" anymore. Another thing, most alignment racks are WAY out of cal and will not provide proper readings. Hopefully they set this one up right. Its just a tool and the tech should tweek the alignment after a road test - though none do this anymore - unless they are your buddy doing the job after hours off the punchclock and on the beercase clock
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
How in the world did you get the alignment check for free??
A lot of shops do it. On the newer Hunter racks it only takes a few minutes to set the car up and you know if it is out right away. They will charge to make adjustments though.
How in the world did you get the alignment check for free??
A lot of shops do it. On the newer Hunter racks it only takes a few minutes to set the car up and you know if it is out right away. They will charge to make adjustments though.
And it only takes a couple minutes to adjust front toe on most cars - but there are usually other issues which dont get corrected. Somtimes a Nigas strut car will stay on tippytoes after being lifted for weeks - you wont get a proper toe reading with the front ride height off. The tech has to read the tyre tread to see how it came in. Again the aligner is a tool not an absolute. Nobody checks TOOT anymore either. The car has to go around corners too.
Its a new car stop trying to fix it. If the tires are wearing funny bring it back to the dealer and complain.
I wouldn't let Firestone or Sears align a go cart.
I wouldn't let Firestone or Sears align a go cart.
As stated before, there are plenty of oportunities for the alignment to get tweaked between the factory and when you drive it off of the dealer lot. Chain downs, on and off of car carriers, etc...
Your front camber is off. Get both sides even. It is way off.
You actually want a bit of toe out on a FWD car. The tires pull straight under power/load.
BTW, you can have correct toe [and other alignment] and have the steering wheel off center.
You actually want a bit of toe out on a FWD car. The tires pull straight under power/load.
BTW, you can have correct toe [and other alignment] and have the steering wheel off center.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a new car stop trying to fix it. If the tires are wearing funny bring it back to the dealer and complain.
I wouldn't let Firestone or Sears align a go cart.
Couldn't agree more.
Its a new car stop trying to fix it. If the tires are wearing funny bring it back to the dealer and complain.
I wouldn't let Firestone or Sears align a go cart.
Couldn't agree more.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
You actually want a bit of toe out on a FWD car. The tires pull straight under power/load.
Tires on FWD cars will tend to toe-in under power and toe-out under braking. If you're toed-out enough, you can get wonky behavior during braking and even during coasting (during which they'll toe-out as well), which isn't necessarily something you want either.
Toyota calls for zero toe to a bit of toe-in on this Prius apparently, and allows for no toe-out. I imagine every car will be different, based on suspension design and geometry.
You actually want a bit of toe out on a FWD car. The tires pull straight under power/load.
Tires on FWD cars will tend to toe-in under power and toe-out under braking. If you're toed-out enough, you can get wonky behavior during braking and even during coasting (during which they'll toe-out as well), which isn't necessarily something you want either.
Toyota calls for zero toe to a bit of toe-in on this Prius apparently, and allows for no toe-out. I imagine every car will be different, based on suspension design and geometry.
once again:
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
once again:
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
Sounds a little like a circle track alignment, just a decimal place off.
once again:
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
Sounds a little like a circle track alignment, just a decimal place off.
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Most new car warranties will cover a one time alignment within the like the first 12 months 12K miles or so. I would take it to the dealer and have them check/adjust it under warranty. If they complain, take it higher.
Toyota's is 12 months or 20,000 miles.
Most new car warranties will cover a one time alignment within the like the first 12 months 12K miles or so. I would take it to the dealer and have them check/adjust it under warranty. If they complain, take it higher.
Toyota's is 12 months or 20,000 miles.
The alignment was off on my Honda slightly too when I took delivery.
I've only had one other new car and it was a problem on that car as well.
I am pretty shocked. All my older cars have had better alignments when I've got them.
New cars and poor alignment is just par for the course for me.
I've only had one other new car and it was a problem on that car as well.
I am pretty shocked. All my older cars have had better alignments when I've got them.
New cars and poor alignment is just par for the course for me.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2025
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
once again:
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
But is it fixable? I'm assuming this that this has clevis bolts with out any camber adjustment.
once again:
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
But is it fixable? I'm assuming this that this has clevis bolts with out any camber adjustment.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
once again:
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
But the camber values are still within spec, if I'm reading this diagram correctly. The only thing that's out of spec is the front toe, as Capri pointed out. So, wouldn't the front toe be the #1 problem here, camber being #2?
once again:
Left camber +.25, right camber -.75.
This is the #1 problem.
But the camber values are still within spec, if I'm reading this diagram correctly. The only thing that's out of spec is the front toe, as Capri pointed out. So, wouldn't the front toe be the #1 problem here, camber being #2?
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Its a new car stop trying to fix it. If the tires are wearing funny bring it back to the dealer and complain.
I wouldn't let Firestone or Sears align a go cart.
Funny, most of the bad alignments I got were dealers. Had to be redone a few times. I guess I got lucky with my local Firestone. I never had a problem with them. I did have problems with a different Firestone place and a Sears alignment though. I have the life time package and they do each car usually once a year or as needed.
Its a new car stop trying to fix it. If the tires are wearing funny bring it back to the dealer and complain.
I wouldn't let Firestone or Sears align a go cart.
Funny, most of the bad alignments I got were dealers. Had to be redone a few times. I guess I got lucky with my local Firestone. I never had a problem with them. I did have problems with a different Firestone place and a Sears alignment though. I have the life time package and they do each car usually once a year or as needed.
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