Ate the inner left side rear track tire I had (corded) while others were "ok" and the tread depth should have gotten me a few more day so into the shop with a guy I know for an alignment. Sure enough, all toe was out. So basically zero toe up front, slight toe in out back. Front camber/caster is due to aftermarket strut mounts and lower control arms. I need to get better about annual alignments and now that I have a "guy" at one of the local Euro performance shops that is happy to work on modded cars, I'm set! Better than having to use Firestone etc.
Alignment time...toe was out (litterally!)
- Thread starter TiGeo
- Start date
I have that free Firestone alignment for BMW. It is a MUST do after few track days.
So...you're saying that you disagree with this assessment?
Posted here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/alignment-done-right.374741/
Posted here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/alignment-done-right.374741/
100% doing this at least once/year now....maybe twice.
For street driving on good roads, sure, not a frequent need...our Atlas is almost 6 years old and never had one, tires are all evenly worn/no issues. My old Jetta needed one 2x a year it seemed. If you really watch yoru tires/rotate regularly you should be able to catch it...the corded tire was my signal!
When I used to do SCCA, I didn't periodically check alignments. I got it done when I wanted changes. Whenever I came back to make changes, even after a year of racing the prior settings had not changed or drifted. YMMV.
Notes from back then: Toe-in: dial in a little less of it (relatively more toe-out) in front to make the steering quicker / more sensitive, which is nice at low speeds but can get darty at high speed. It's a tradeoff between sensitivity and stability. If power oversteer is excessive and you want to reduce it, more toe-in in the rear. Or vice versa. Similar trade-off to up front. Set negative camber where it needs to be for proper tire wear at your pressures, and as much caster as you can get for that setting (though 7-8 degrees is a lot). Too much neg camber will reduce traction for acceleration & braking and cause uneven tire wear. We used to look for scuffing along the sidewall/tread surface after each lap to check for the right combination of pressure & neg camber.
Notes from back then: Toe-in: dial in a little less of it (relatively more toe-out) in front to make the steering quicker / more sensitive, which is nice at low speeds but can get darty at high speed. It's a tradeoff between sensitivity and stability. If power oversteer is excessive and you want to reduce it, more toe-in in the rear. Or vice versa. Similar trade-off to up front. Set negative camber where it needs to be for proper tire wear at your pressures, and as much caster as you can get for that setting (though 7-8 degrees is a lot). Too much neg camber will reduce traction for acceleration & braking and cause uneven tire wear. We used to look for scuffing along the sidewall/tread surface after each lap to check for the right combination of pressure & neg camber.
Did you ask for 0 toe or is that what vw wants?
I prefer a little bit of toe (in for cars used on the street, but out works aswel for track cars).
edit: what MRC01 said, basically. Though on a FWD macpherson setup, and depending on rules in any competition you are in (or road worthiness) camber and caster are what they are....
I prefer a little bit of toe (in for cars used on the street, but out works aswel for track cars).
edit: what MRC01 said, basically. Though on a FWD macpherson setup, and depending on rules in any competition you are in (or road worthiness) camber and caster are what they are....
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Yes I wanted zero toe up front and slight toe in rear.
Camber and caster are fixed. Not competing.
Yes zero toe for better turn-in. I had slightly toed out and my car wasn't dirty to me...nice and stable at high speeds. Camber and caster on my Mac strut car are fixed and have a bit more than stock from aftermarket suspension bits.
Really depends on the car. Some cars can't hold alignments well with track use.
Rear on my Camaro would shift but the front would stay the same.
I am in complete disagreement with anyone who says alignments are never necessary. Of course, the formation of that opinion heavily depends on whether your vehicle is actually adjustable. The fewer adjustments you have, the fewer "slip" out of alignment between visits, obviously.
In my decades with rear camber/toe + front toe adjustable vehicles, I can say without a doubt that I can feel changes in handling and stability as the alignment nudges out, and can feel the improvement as soon as I have the work done. On my SO's Sienna where the only adjustment is front toe, it simply doesn't seem to make much difference unless something has been really shifted or replaced. On a past vehicle with adjustments for rear camber/toe + front camber/castor/toe - no comment whether alignments are valuable are necessary
In my decades with rear camber/toe + front toe adjustable vehicles, I can say without a doubt that I can feel changes in handling and stability as the alignment nudges out, and can feel the improvement as soon as I have the work done. On my SO's Sienna where the only adjustment is front toe, it simply doesn't seem to make much difference unless something has been really shifted or replaced. On a past vehicle with adjustments for rear camber/toe + front camber/castor/toe - no comment whether alignments are valuable are necessary
It does have a slightly different feel now, I could tell as soon as I drove it.I am in complete disagreement with anyone who says alignments are never necessary. Of course, the formation of that opinion heavily depends on whether your vehicle is actually adjustable. The fewer adjustments you have, the fewer "slip" out of alignment between visits, obviously.
In my decades with rear camber/toe + front toe adjustable vehicles, I can say without a doubt that I can feel changes in handling and stability as the alignment nudges out, and can feel the improvement as soon as I have the work done. On my SO's Sienna where the only adjustment is front toe, it simply doesn't seem to make much difference unless something has been really shifted or replaced. On a past vehicle with adjustments for rear camber/toe + front camber/castor/toe - no comment whether alignments are valuable are necessary
Absolutely. How much of negative camber can you go in the back?
Not sure TBH, I'm at -1.7 now and was -1.6 so but that's in the OE range but there is likely quite a bit more. I'm -2.0 up front. The tow is zero now up front and slight toe in out back for high-speed stability as I understand it.
I would go more negative in the back. It will help to rotate front and limit understeer, which, as you know, VW has in abundance.
This car actually isn't bad in the understeer deptartment. Upgraded front/rear sway bars really keep the body lean in-check allowing the alignment to stay consistent in turns.
Sure, upgrades do help. But, I would definitely go -1.9 which might be an upper limit on OE spec. It will rotate front faster.
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