School Me on Wheel Alignment, Please.

doitmyself

doitmyself

Joined
Jun 3, 2002
Messages
9,590
Location
MI
Getting new tires installed next week. Never had any alignment:
2013 Jeep Patriot 2WD, 105,000 miles, Altimax RT43's at 55K miles and 4/32 - even wear except slight "heel toe"/ inner edge wear just now showing up. Rotated every 6K.

Internet pic of heel toe (worse than mine)
1639082193135.png


https://www.brakeandfrontend.com/alignment-suspension-specs-2007-2011-jeep-patriot/ : "This is a “Net Build” vehicle with only toe adjustments built into the vehicle. Some adjustments for caster and camber can be made by moving the subframes........Front camber is adjustable with an aftermarket lower bolt kit for the strut. The kit will only give ±1º of camber. Rear toe is adjustable by the toe link and the adjustable cam bolt on the inboard side. Rear camber settings on this vehicle are determined at the time the vehicle is designed, by the location of the vehicle’s suspension components (Net Build). The result is no required adjustment of camber after the vehicle is built or when servicing the suspension components."

There is an after market adjustable rear camber arm: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sps-67455

I will have them inspect for suspension wear first, before alignment. If anything costly, I will probably bring home and do that work myself, then return for alignment and tire install.

Please tell me what to expect/handle regarding any unforeseen challenges. Thank you much!
 
If you're already going in for an alignment, I would check the ball joints, tie rod ends, inner tie rods and the toe rods out back. They may be worn out which could be causing your newly found tire wear.

Lots of vids on YT for checking tie rods and ball joints by lifting a corner off the ground with the column locked and shaking the wheel side to side and up and down
 
doitmyself said:
Internet pic of heel toe (worse than mine)
View attachment 80527
Click to expand...
Heel toe is a downshifting method on manual transmissions, not sure what is has to do with alignment. That picture is of a balance problem. If tire wear is pretty even as you mention, and the steering wheel is centered and the car doesn't pull to one side, I wouldn't bother with an alignment. That's $100 better spent on other maintenance.
 
Atikovi, this is the site where it uses the term "heel toe" to describe that picture I borrowed: https://www.popularmechanics.com/ca...ur-tires-can-tell-you-about-your-car/?slide=8 I was looking for images showing cupping, feathering, etc..

I am new to the idea of a "net build" vehicle and was wondering how a shop might handle out-of-alignment IF no worn suspension parts are found. Probably over thinking this, but the inside wear seems to have just started in the past few months after years of VERY even wear. Maybe it's just a characteristic of nearly worn out tires..... I don't know.
 
It is hard to diagnose without an actual picture of the tire, but inside edge wear evenly on both front tires is almost certainly toe... I would check the inner and outer tie rods carefully...

If the shop will not agree to shoot for preferred settings up front, find another shop...
 
Are you cross rotating them or just front and back? Make sure you're crossing them over too.
 
Is this showing up on the rear tires? As in, when it's time to rotate, the rears have a noticeable feather to them? My FWD's have always done this, ok for first 100k or so, then no matter what they like to feather the tires (regardless of alignments). I try to combat it with 5k cross rotations.
 
Thank you everyone for the input. I cross rotate every 6 K. Yes, Supton, the rears seem to have it also, very negligible. I did some minor "shaking and pulling" and do not detect anything loose (I know it's more involved).

Edit: o.k., maybe I am an idiot.....again, LOL. I just went out and took some pictures at about 3000 miles post rotation. The inner tread is still slightly worn more, but the cupping/feathering/heel-toe effect seems to be gone! Trust my OCD, the uneven wear was there!:unsure:

Thanks again, and my apologies. I appreciate the expertise shared here.

1639144000677.jpeg
 
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doitmyself said:
Thank you everyone for the input. I cross rotate every 6 K. Yes, Supton, the rears seem to have it also, very negligible. I did some minor "shaking and pulling" and do not detect anything loose (I know it's more involved).

Edit: o.k., maybe I am an idiot.....again, LOL. I just went out and took some pictures at about 3000 miles post rotation. The inner tread is still slightly worn more, but the cupping/feathering/heel-toe effect seems to be gone! Trust my OCD, the uneven wear was there!:unsure:

Thanks again, and my apologies. I appreciate the expertise shared here.

View attachment 80607
Click to expand...
Is that undercoating oil, or a blown strut?
 
Once a tire gets a wear pattern, it can be very hard to undo it. A cross rotation might "fix" or deal with feathering, by applying the wear forces in the opposite direction: but there is no replacing missing rubber. Once you had that inner wear it was always going to be there.
 
Just check the toe if its reasonable leave it. And dont let them tell you its out if the total toe is OK and your steering wheel has been centered. That just them not having the steering wheel centered when they shot a reading.
Now, does this have an un-alignable twist beam rear axle ?

BTW most all unitbody cars have been net build for ages.
You did fine last pair don't over think this.
 
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That tire looks great for 55k miles on it. A minor toe adjustment is likely all you’ll need. Are you going with a new set of the same tires since these lasted so well?
 
It doesn't take a huge toe problem to make these Patriots chop the rear tires. As previously stated, worn struts and toe issues will cause tire chop, however that being said, tire chop on four wheel independent suspension vehicles is pretty common, as a lot of it is caused by the tires scrubbing sideways across the road under normal suspension compression and rebound as the vehicle ride height changes under normal driving. All you can do is get the toe set and keep rotating the tires like you are. Finally though, I'm from the rust belt, and these things are notorious for rusting the rear alignment bolts and cams to the point where more often than not you end up having to cut the control arm out and replace it and the hardware to make it adjustable again. Why the manufacturers couldn't use anti seize on rear alignment hardware is beyond me, but none of them do. Good luck!
 
Wow, thank you everybody for the input. You answered a lot of my doubts/concerns and provided some tips to help me.

cb13, yes I decided on the same RT43's again. I made a thread titled "Tires other than RT43's?" My list boiled down to Firestone LE3, Cooper Enduramax, and Avid Ascend (limited tires in this OEM size). The RT43's checked more boxes than the others AND my local dealer had an outstanding price. Current tires have become somewhat noisy the past year.

Junk, I hope the annual Krown sprays have mitigated the fastener corrosion. Your comments about tire chop - our horrendous washboard roads probably add to the problem.
 
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