2021 RAV4 front Caster of out spec

[tiredguy]

Hello

I have a 2021 RAV4 LE AWD.

While driving on the highway my RAV4 encountered some type of impact to the front suspension.

I had an alignment done and the front toe was out as well as the front left caster. They adjusted the toe however the caster is still out.

The front caster spec is 4.2-5.7, the left measures 3.8 and the right 4.5. Is 3.8 considered being out by alot, a little or other?

What is likely damaged? Strut? Control arm? Other? How would a mechanic go about figuring out what is causing the caster to be out?

 

[researcher]

Hello

I have a 2021 RAV4 LE AWD.

While driving on the highway my RAV4 encountered some type of impact to the front suspension.

I had an alignment done and the front toe was out as well as the front left caster. They adjusted the toe however the caster is still out.

The front caster spec is 4.2-5.7, the left measures 3.8 and the right 4.5. Is 3.8 considered being out by alot, a little or other?

What is likely damaged? Strut? Control arm? Other? How would a mechanic go about figuring out what is causing the caster to be out?

my experience has shown that the control arm is responsible for the caster. Whatever it hit ended up bending the control arm. Best way to fix it, is to replace it.

 

[tiredguy]

so the shop changed the strut, knuckle and hub / bearing assembly now the caster is out even further at 3.3. It was 3.8, spec is 4.2-5.7

how could replacing the strut, knuckle and hub / bearing assembly make things worse?

today they are going to change the control arm

 

[supton]

Sounds like they elected to replace everything but the part that was actually bent. Any chance they are doing this on your dime, and thus are doing what they can to make the most of that dime?

What shop is doing this? Not that I'd know them, but I'm curious, if they are some corner shop or some place of reputation. I don't get how they would jump to strut, bearing, knuckle for castor problems.

 

[researcher]

Sounds like they elected to replace everything but the part that was actually bent. Any chance they are doing this on your dime, and thus are doing what they can to make the most of that dime?

What shop is doing this? Not that I'd know them, but I'm curious, if they are some corner shop or some place of reputation. I don't get how they would jump to strut, bearing, knuckle for castor problems.

Exactly.. replacing the rest was just making extra $$.. the control arm is where the caster measurement comes from. I bet they finally replace that and it's back to spec, that's unfortunate that you didn't read my earlier response and just tell the shop to replace that alone, then see the alignment results.

 

[tiredguy]

so it is at a Toyota dealer the insurance is paying for it under a comprehensive claim.

the lead mechanic found the front strut is off centered and the knuckle is slightly bent, therefore it was changed, I guess they thought the bearing might have been compromised by the impact so changed that.

Honestly at this point I am worried what would be next if the new control arm doesn't correct the caster?

Also why would the caster go out of spec 0.5 degrees with new a new strut, knuckle and bearing?

 

[researcher]

so it is at a Toyota dealer the insurance is paying for it under a comprehensive claim.

the lead mechanic found the front strut is off centered and the knuckle is slightly bent, therefore it was changed, I guess they thought the bearing might have been compromised by the impact so changed that.

Honestly at this point I am worried what would be next if the new control arm doesn't correct the caster?

Also why would the caster go out of spec 0.5 degrees with new a new strut, knuckle and bearing?

ahh ok so they're just trying to be thorough, nevermind what I said before.. Doesn't look like they're just replacing parts without a reason. The lower control arm has bushings, when the new parts are installed, they are straight and then end up pulling on the lower control arm, that would cause the change in spec. That's my take on it. The bushings have play in them for ride compliance.

new parts = straight + bent control arm = odd caster result.

There is no other component that would affect caster, it's the control arm, they replace that you'll be back in spec. The ONLY way you're not is if the mounting point of the chassis/frame for the control arm is bent. And that takes a LOT!! you'd be much further out in spec if that was bent.

 

[IndyIan]

so it is at a Toyota dealer the insurance is paying for it under a comprehensive claim.

the lead mechanic found the front strut is off centered and the knuckle is slightly bent, therefore it was changed, I guess they thought the bearing might have been compromised by the impact so changed that.

Honestly at this point I am worried what would be next if the new control arm doesn't correct the caster?

Also why would the caster go out of spec 0.5 degrees with new a new strut, knuckle and bearing?

Parts can be slightly different, metal bushings not perfectly centered in the rubber?
Also the subframe could have shifted or is bent slightly.
You need to find this guy, no new parts necessary!

 

[tiredguy]

ahh ok so they're just trying to be thorough, nevermind what I said before.. Doesn't look like they're just replacing parts without a reason. The lower control arm has bushings, when the new parts are installed, they are straight and then end up pulling on the lower control arm, that would cause the change in spec. That's my take on it. The bushings have play in them for ride compliance.

new parts = straight + bent control arm = odd caster result.

There is no other component that would affect caster, it's the control arm, they replace that you'll be back in spec. The ONLY way you're not is if the mounting point of the chassis/frame for the control arm is bent. And that takes a LOT!! you'd be much further out in spec if that was bent.

Thanks

How about if the mounting point for the chassis/frame for the strut is bent?

 

[researcher]

Thanks

How about if the mounting point for the chassis/frame for the strut is bent?

That would require a frame shop not the dealer.. they'd have to take measurements on their frame rack but that's a very expensive option if the strut tower (where the strut is mounted) is bent.. not sure insurance would like to pay that option.. For 0.5 degrees, I doubt that the strut tower is tweaked/bent.

and you're welcome.. i've been where you are, you're worried it won't be returned to how it used to be. and your mind is going "worse case scenario". No worries though, I'll bet you they replace the lower control arm and it'll be back to normal. I've hit bad things (lots of F words when that happens, lol) such as this one crater of a pot hole on a blacktopped highway road.. BAM!! I never saw it, otherwise I would've avoided it! The caster was out and replacing the lower control arm fixed it perfectly. At least it's today that you'll know the results, no more waiting and wondering.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

What’s bent isn’t always obvious. And caster is not a live measurement. I doubt there’s any adjustment for caster, so each measurement is being taken during an entirely new alignment setup, but IF there were any adjustment while already on the alignment rack, a new sweep would have to be done to accurately determine caster.

 

[Number_35]

Our late great '97 Mazda MPV had asymmetrical strut mounts, which could be rotated to 1 of 4 positions to set caster.

I think this is fairly uncommon though.

 

[tiredguy]

That would require a frame shop not the dealer.. they'd have to take measurements on their frame rack but that's a very expensive option if the strut tower (where the strut is mounted) is bent.. not sure insurance would like to pay that option.. For 0.5 degrees, I doubt that the strut tower is tweaked/bent.

and you're welcome.. i've been where you are, you're worried it won't be returned to how it used to be. and your mind is going "worse case scenario". No worries though, I'll bet you they replace the lower control arm and it'll be back to normal. I've hit bad things (lots of F words when that happens, lol) such as this one crater of a pot hole on a blacktopped highway road.. BAM!! I never saw it, otherwise I would've avoided it! The caster was out and replacing the lower control arm fixed it perfectly. At least it's today that you'll know the results, no more waiting and wondering.

HI - A detail that I wanted to mention. The 0.5 degrees is how much it changed after they replaced the parts. It was already out of spec from the impact. Spec is 4.3 - 5.7. After the impact it was 3.8, and then after the parts mentioned above were changed it got worse, it went to 3.3 so it is out at least 1 degree, the middle of the 4.3 - 5.7 range is 5.

 

[researcher]

Our late great '97 Mazda MPV had asymmetrical strut mounts, which could be rotated to 1 of 4 positions to set caster.

I think this is fairly uncommon though.

that would be awesome, that much adjustment! ya that is definitely uncommon, but so is mazda!

 

[researcher]

HI - A detail that I wanted to mention. The 0.5 degrees is how much it changed after they replaced the parts. It was already out of spec from the impact. Spec is 4.3 - 5.7. After the impact it was 3.8, and then after the parts mentioned above were changed it got worse, it went to 3.3 so it is out at least 1 degree, the middle of the 4.3 - 5.7 range is 5.

did they install the control arm today? how did that go??

 

[tiredguy]

did they install the control arm today? how did that go??

yes they just changed the control arm and now its at 3.9, which is still out of spec. Do you think this warrants further work? Or is that amount being out acceptable? I just asked them to send over the printout so I can see what the cross caster is.

 

[millerbl00]

I would take it to a trusted specialist that work on frames. the Subframe is probably the problem now

 

[researcher]

yes they just changed the control arm and now its at 3.9, which is still out of spec. Do you think this warrants further work? Or is that amount being out acceptable? I just asked them to send over the printout so I can see what the cross caster is.

I was sure the control would fix it, well it did bring it closer to the specified range. I agree with @millerbl00 the subframe is bent causing this, it was a little bit of everything being bent with what was hit on the road.
A frame shop is the only place now that can tell you if the subframe is bent, but I doubt insurance is going to help that far. You might be able to just live with it, if the tires are tracking true down the road, no bad tire wear, no pulling, and the steering feels ok then it might be more trouble than it's worth to keep going.

I'm sorry that all that didn't fix it, that must've been a really bad hit that side of the vehicle took for all those components being bent.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

You’re under a degree difference side to side. Not ideal, but I doubt you’ll notice it. Caster does not wear tires, it adds or takes away from stability and steering return to center. There’s a chance there’s room to shift the entire subframe, but with a normal alignment a mechanic is not going to work that hard. With yours being a continual issue, they may have tried but not sure.