Out, M1 0w-40, In PP 10w-30. Quiet

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I've been Using M1 oils in 12 to 15 month fairly low mile oil changes in the same rebuilt engine for the last 11 years. I have used in this general order: M1 10w-40HM first 4 years M1 TDT 5w-40 M1 10w-40HM M1 0w-40 FS SN M1 0w-30AFE M1 0w-40 SN Couple M1 0w-40 back to backs in there. I've had undesirable valvetrain noise for the last 11 years. The first batch of 0w-40 attenuated it to a large degree, but it returned half way through OCI, and stayed the same through 0w-30AFE and the last 2 batches of 0w-40 I recently stood in Wally world, Looking at another M1 0w-40 5 Qt jug for $22.88. I saw Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 and 10w-30 for the same price as the M1 5 or 10, 5 or 10. Heckwith it, Unlikely to see below freezing temps this year, but might drive X country twice. Walked out with PP 10w-30. I let the M1 0w-40 drain out for several hours. Prefilled a new XG-8A. Once I strarted it I heard the same valvetrain noise I have been listening to for the last 11 years and just learned to live with. But then this infernal valvetrain type of noise started lessening with every passing second, and now I can barely hear it. I did not drive it to full temp, but today I did, excpecting the noise to return. Still super Quiet. I like Quiet. I am rather surprised at just how much quieter it is. I frankly do not believe it. Not much Info on PP 10w-30 out there. No Voa's, Nothing on PQIA. Anybody know the TBN or the make up of the add pack or care to guess what they are using in this GTL synthetic? Glad I got off the M1 train.
 
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I'm glad that it worked for you. 10W-xx has a lot <span style="font-weight: bold">thicker</span> base oil than the 0W-xx, which could be what's helping with the valvetrain noise. The add pack should be identical to what's in the other PPPP viscosity grades. Did you get the new SN PLUS version? It has an entirely different add pack than the SN version.
 
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Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
I think it is the SN pure plus version. Yellow bottle which I do not have anymore.
Oh, the yellow bottle PPPP is the dexos1 Gen 2 / API SN PLUS version, regardless of whether it says SN PLUS on the bottle or not. They changed the formula to dexos1 Gen 2 before SN PLUS was licensed circa May 2018. It won't say SN PLUS because it was marketed before May and it won't say dexos1 Gen 2 either of course because there is no 10W-30 in dexos, but the additive pack is the one used for dexos1 Gen 2 and SN PLUS, which means a hybrid Ca/Mg detergent among other things. Since dexos1 Gen 2 add packs and base oils ensure timing-chain-wear protection, you probably get some extra insurance for the valvetrain noise from there. The considerably thicker base oil in 10W-xx helps a lot, too. A good full synthetic, like a GTL-based oil, also helps in that matter.
 

wrcsixeight

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I recall seeing an April 2018 date printed on the bottom of the yellow bottle. The valvetrain noise was perhaps the worst with the M1 10w-40 HM, and previous to this current batch, the quietest was the first M1 0w-40 I used in 2012 or perhaps 2013, but that noise returned 6 months into that OCI. Previous to going Synthetic in 2007 I was a castrol or valvoline 10w-40 guy and these were noisier than the M1 10w-40HM. The synthetic 10w-40 stopped all the lifter ticky on warm or cold startup. I was using nothing but Purolator L30001 filters from conventional, upto a few years ago. Hoping it stays this quiet.
 
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M1 HM 10W-40 has one of the highest viscosity-index improver (VII) concentrations in any M1 oil. PPPP 10W-30 is almost a monograde oil with very little VII. Perhaps your valvetrain doesn't like VII among other things? shrug PAO, ester, GTL, Group III, etc. all have different friction and oil-film-strength properties. Additives also play a role. Of course, base-oil viscosity (not the overall viscosity) is very important for the valvetrain. With the PPPP 10W-30, you know that you have a very thick base oil because you have very little VII. Also, thicker base oils tend to have a higher oil-film strength because of a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient (PVC) as well as a higher base-oil VI. A_Harman index for selected oils Keep us updated along the OCI.
 
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Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
... Walked out with PP 10w-30. ...
first time I used PPPP 5Wx30 d1g2 in my wife's car, she told me the car runs very quiet. I didn't notice the difference. Next time I used (still in) M1 EP 10Wx30 and asked her how does it sound now? She said it's very quiet! I didn't told her I changed the brand. She doesn't care anyways. Again I didn't notice any difference either. assuming relatively similar oils have similar add packs, my guess is oil viscosity is the main contributor to the noise. idk, I am sure experts will correct me! you have a very good memory and can recall noise from many years ago ... this is what I would do if I really want to put this to bed ... next time use a different 10Wx30 with the same classification (SN, d1g2, d2, etc.) or since you like M1, use M1 EP 10Wx30 (same price as PP in my area) and see what it does. That's the only way to find out. I do these kind of experimentation all the time.
 
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Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
If Mobil 1 is known for one thing that is not making engines quiet... Not bashing M1 it's just something that is well known.
I'm not sure about that. I used m1 0w30 in an 01 escape and it was very quiet. I just changed my mazda cx-5 to mobil 1 0w 30 and its smooth and as quiet as anything else. I've noticed my engines quieter from viscosity changes more than brand.
 
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
If Mobil 1 is known for one thing that is not making engines quiet... Not bashing M1 it's just something that is well known.
I'm not sure about that. I used m1 0w30 in an 01 escape and it was very quiet. I just changed my mazda cx-5 to mobil 1 0w 30 and its smooth and as quiet as anything else. I've noticed my engines quieter from viscosity changes more than brand.
I agree with both of you. I have had M1 allow more valvetrain noise in several vehicles(Honda, Nissan, Toyota) except the Mazda in my signature. The Mazda seems quiet on most oils however the Mazda is quiet-er on 5w30 compared to 5w20.
 

FCD

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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
If Mobil 1 is known for one thing that is not making engines quiet... Not bashing M1 it's just something that is well known.
I'm not sure about that. I used m1 0w30 in an 01 escape and it was very quiet. I just changed my mazda cx-5 to mobil 1 0w 30 and its smooth and as quiet as anything else. I've noticed my engines quieter from viscosity changes more than brand.
I agree with both of you. I have had M1 allow more valvetrain noise in several vehicles(Honda, Nissan, Toyota) except the Mazda in my signature. The Mazda seems quiet on most oils however the Mazda is quiet-er on 5w30 compared to 5w20.
M1 is a great oil and i have nothing against it but it is well known to make some valvetrains noisy whereas other oils do not and that M1 UOA's tend to show high Iron wear more than other oils. There are several threads on this where people have theorized why increased valvetrain noise is often reported on M1. Just go on Google, copy paste this : Mobil 1 noise site:bobistheoilguy.com and hit search
 
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Ford engines don´t cry on watery oils. My old Vulcan V6 3.0L also run smoothly in 0w20. Not even my Hondas and Yotas run that smooth on thin oils.
 

FCD

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Originally Posted By: Hammehead
Ford engines don´t cry on watery oils. My old Vulcan V6 3.0L also run smoothly in 0w20. Not even my Hondas and Yotas run that smooth on thin oils.
Mine need a 15W-40 or thicker to be happy haha.
 
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Mopar recommends 10w30 in your LA 318 and you should have ZERO valve train noise. Your engine doesn't need a 0w or 40 grade oil. I have a 3.9l in my B2500 van, basically the same engine, with 185k miles and no noise. I had a very slight lifter tick when I tried 5w20 for a very short while. The 3.9l runs the smoothest and has the best fuel economy on M1 10w30 HM. FWIW: My F150 4.9l was the quietest with the old-formula M1 5w40. That oil is no longer available and I've chased the cam gear noise (metal cam gear vs the old nylon I replaced) with different oils for years. Tried the M1 10w30 HM (ACEA A3/B3 HTHS 3.5) last fall and after about 200 miles on the oil all is quiet. I'm thinking you may have another issue that is not oil related? The M1 10w40 HM should have taken care of any engine noise.
 
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Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I'm glad that it worked for you. 10W-xx has a lot thicker base oil than the 0W-xx, which could be what's helping with the valvetrain noise. The add pack should be identical to what's in the other PPPP viscosity grades. Did you get the new SN PLUS version? It has an entirely different add pack than the SN version.
Wouldn't the add pack for the 10W30 have less VII compared to the one for the 5W30? I like the idea of a 10W30 with it's lower NOACK but I have no assurance that it has all the good stuff that the Dexos1 Gen2 5W30 provides. Why would SOPUS use a more costly (moly, etc.) add pack for the 10W30 if it's not required?
 
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