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I've been thinking the same thing about our roads in central PA. The interstate sections I drive on (I-80 and I-99) are pretty good. But the state and local roads are horrendous. I've never seen them this bad. We've had a bad winter, but this is by far the worst I've ever seen them. The budgetary issues aren't really even contributing yet. The fact hat we've only been above freezing for a total of a few hours in the last two months around here must be playing a role, because the pavement in the parkng lot at work is falling apart too.
 
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Approximately 45% of Americans pay no income taxes at all. Many of them (the 45%) actually get refunds.
 
Some of the county roads are cleaned better than some of the state roads.

Then again, the best roads around here are the interstates. The stretch of I-86 for 20 miles either side of my exit is smooth as silk from re-paving 5 years ago. It's still plowed terribly.

Compare that with some stretches of state roads near the farms that are bad enough to make one glad to be wearing a seatbelt less they suffer brain damage from hitting the ceiling 20-30 times in a mile. It's smoother when they don't plow it.

Makes me glad both our cars have good snow tires on them. With the lack of plowing, they've saved us much grief this winter.
 
could they save a little as they go along to fix roads later? yes
will they? no
to:lexus114 how can you talk about cars and not talk about taxes?
 
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Originally Posted By: opus1
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Neglected infrastructure is good because it makes people use mass transit.




Yeah, I see the sarcasm-tag, but I still have to respond.
wink.gif


And then there's the neglected mass-transit infrastructure. My train line has had more "mechanical problems", "signal problems" and "switch problems" this year alone than in an entire year back when I was riding the same line in the early 2000's.



I actually agree with you. I'd gladly take advantage of an effective, well-maintained mass transit system. I'd gladly be "led" toward highly effective and well-maintained mass transit. But "force" people to use neglected/pathetic mass transit infrastructure by inflating the price of private transport and they'll resist mightily.
 
Originally Posted By: morris
could they save a little as they go along to fix roads later? yes
will they? no
to:lexus114 how can you talk about cars and not talk about taxes?



you cant turn the threads into a political battle.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
If you don't want to work, then apparently you don't want the assistance.

If we have 9-10% unemployment, that's a lot of folks available to work on infrastructure. Let's put them to work!


Sounds good doesn't it ?

But then they are NOT unemployed, and when the system needs an optimal unemployment rate to keep wages down, working for the dole doesn't.
 
In Georgia, the general view is that roads must be maintained and of course this comes from the taxes that the state collects but to support the mass transit system in Atlanta, it must somehow be self supporting via ticket sales. Of course, road construction and maintenance and hence, car driving is massively subsidized by tax collection but there is an enormous blind spot in believing that all other forms of transportation must be somehow self supporting.

I say turn all the roads into self supporting toll-ways or just agree that supporting multiple transit options via taxes is a legit function for government.

Ok, lock away Mods.
 
Out here in West Nowheresville, NY, the public transportation is a 3-4 bus fleet of 20-person buses that goes to the other small towns. It's that if you're lucky enough to live within walking distance of their stops, taxis, or depending on your neighbor's generosity. If you don't have access one of those, forget about getting anywhere without a car.

It's the reason there are so many rusted-out heaps still on the roads today. The alternative is not getting to work/school/stores over the horrible roads. Did I mention the local parts stores do lots of business?
 
Well, the right wing talking points always seem to slide through.

It's not until someone challenges the Republican talking points that the threads get locked.

That's just what I've noticed.
 
That's one of the problems. Political parties only polarize us.

Our management has behaved horribly irresponsibly. They are corrupted at city, state and Fed. No matter the party.

We're in deep [censored] and the fix is going to hurt!
 
Interestingly, I think until times get better, better road thechnology will not make it into the field unless it is only very slightly more expensive.

I propose several potential reasons for slow implementation of better technologies:

1. Engineers at state DOT's are probably older. That isn't a problem, but their roots are in what has worked for a long time, and new technology is risky.

2. When DOT engineers learn about new technology, if they can get someone to allow them to use it, it will be on a test basis and will have to be obvserved/monitored for years to ensure there are not problems. If development is recent, it will be a long time before states are confident enough in this technology to roll it out en masse.

3. Highway construction costs are awarded on a low bid basis (only to qualified contractors, of course). Unless specified in an RFP, it is likely only the least expensive materials that meet standards would be used. In addition, a contractor will be liable for problems for a contractually set time period for their work, and they may wish to stay clear of new technology.

4. Engineering costs may run high with new technology. It could be difficult to find a qualified engineering firm to design, inspection/testing and do construction engineering on a relatively new material. Those firms will be out there, but their costs will likely be high due to various factors inherent with specialized personnel. Federal legislation does not allow price to be a factor in awarding engineering contracts (brooks act requires qualifications based selection- actually a good thing), and so costs are generally not fully determined until after engineering work is awarded. This is pretty risky for DOT's without a lot of wiggle room in the budget.

Some of that above is obviously conjecture, and I would love an engineer to help out with input on that stuff. The above is just what I've put together.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
Approximately 45% of Americans pay no income taxes at all. Many of them (the 45%) actually get refunds.

Very simple solution, the gas tax. If we could assure that all funds collected would be spent on transportation, what would be wrong with setting the tax to the level required to have funds needed to fix our crumbling transportation infrastructure? Use taxes are the fairest form of taxation in that those who use the results are also the ones who pay.
 
Originally Posted By: Glockenspieler
In Georgia, the general view is that roads must be maintained and of course this comes from the taxes that the state collects but to support the mass transit system in Atlanta, it must somehow be self supporting via ticket sales. Of course, road construction and maintenance and hence, car driving is massively subsidized by tax collection but there is an enormous blind spot in believing that all other forms of transportation must be somehow self supporting.

I say turn all the roads into self supporting toll-ways or just agree that supporting multiple transit options via taxes is a legit function for government.

Ok, lock away Mods.


The roads already are self supporting toll ways if the States would only properly manage the funds they collect.

Go buy a $20,000 car today. You pay $1,200 in sales tax, then over the next ten years you spend $1,500 to keep it registered and legal. If you sell it within that time frame, the State gets to tax the sale AGAIN. Buy thousands of gallons of gas to use that car, thats right, another huge tax bill.

Plenty of money already being collected!
 
You're absolutely right. Americans are paying more in taxes today than they've ever paid, yet the things that are SUPPOSED to be paid for with those tax dollars aren't being paid for. Where is all the money going?
 
Originally Posted By: bigdreama
Originally Posted By: grampi
You're absolutely right. Americans are paying more in taxes today than they've ever paid, yet the things that are SUPPOSED to be paid for with those tax dollars aren't being paid for. Where is all the money going?


Fail.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm


That article isn't all encompassing. When you look at every type of tax there is, income, sales, property, corporate (which gets passed on to consumers) license fees, gas taxes, tolls, and a plethora of other taxes, we're paying more now than we ever have, and we're certainly paying enough to fund what SHOULD be getting funded if the money was managed properly.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi

Taxes have done nothing except go up. So where is all the money going?


Towards underfunded pension obligations and health insurance for government workers and retirees.
 
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