Abnormal tire wear sorta odd

[ltslimjim]

Car in signature is the one in question.

History:

2007 Honda Fit Sport just shy of 330,000 miles.

It had an alignment 3 1/2 years ago at 272,000… or 58,000 miles ago at an independent “tires and alignment” only shop. It was checked as good by Honda at 280,000 during a warranty replacement of both CVs.

Symptoms:

Loud noise from front wheels while driving. Some shimmy side to side, more noticeable while turning. Ride is rough on roads with any imperfection.

All tires had just been rotated and balanced. The current front tires; especially the RF, have signs of irregular cupping. They were in the rear for the previous 8k miles. Alignment or Shocks?

So Far:

Replaced outer tie rods during a LF wheel bearing on Monday; as it was pulling to the driver side…somewhat smoother, but still loud after. I suspect the irregular tire wear is producing the sound. It’s possible the other wheel bearing is going, but that’s the side of the worst worn tire.

The mechanic who performed the above job had diagnosed the vehicle by driving it and listening to it. Inspecting the old wheel bearing revealed signs of overheating but there is no audible noise or grinding etc while spinning the old bearing. I’m now suspecting the wheel bearing was parts cannon’d and prematurely replaced …where as it actually needed an alignment check (performing that now) and replacement of the front (all?) shocks; which I now plan to do this year before too long, but the front tires are already compromised so I just need the shocks done before a new pair or set of tires are installed.

Where I am confused is this:

How is it that the tires that are now on the rear don’t seem to have the cupping? Isn’t that more a symptom of a front wheel drive vehicle with suspension or alignment issues?

However, the seemingly fine current rear tires, which just came off running on the front for 8k miles don’t have the irregular cupping wear pattern. Might that indicate the rear shocks? Faulty tires? They are Pirelli P4 Plus tires with 40k miles and plenty of tread left. This is just a daily driver. The mechanic did note that the front left seemed to dip lower than the right.

PS: This was first experience with a new mechanic as my long time former semi-retired and was overbooked. I’m trying to make it work with them and the work they did was good; so I don’t want to make a big deal about the parts cannon theme though I may use someone else for diagnosing in the future.

Any thoughts or questions? I’m just looking for feedback.

I think the best CoA is to get all 4 shocks done. I plan to re-use the springs and go with KYB GR2 on all 4 corners.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Lubener]

Many words and no picture..

 

[Pew]

Would you happen to have a picture of the affected and unaffected tires, and perhaps also the alignment readout?

 

[JohnnyG]

330,000 miles? Some part of the suspension or axle is worn out.

 

[ltslimjim]

I did not think to provide pictures. I will attempt decent shots and report back.

I already left the alignment shop. I can try calling and see if they will email details.

 

[DougR]

Dave's Auto Center employs four steps to repair a symptom: Condition (symptoms), Cause (diagnose what causes the symptoms), Correction (determine which cause to repair and how is it to be repaired) and Confirm (symptom is resolved and address another Cause if necessary). At this point you are still in the Condition phase. What did the new mechanic do to determine if the wheel bearing was a Cause? Test drive at low and high speeds while making left and right turns? Lift vehicle, rotate wheel, hold hand on the spring to feel and use stethoscope to hear a noisy bearing? Did the new mechanic apply any other test? If none of these tests conclusively pointed to a worn wheel bearing, then most likely the Cause is yet to be determined. A badly worn wheel bearing sufficient to cause cupping should have been an easy and confident diagnosis prior to replacement. Post replacement inspection of the wheel bearing indicates insufficient wear to cause noise. I would directly question diagnostic ability of the new mechanic.

 

[ltslimjim]

Pictures are apparently too large to attach directly to site. Here is an IMGUR of the tires. You’ll see the clear ridge and valley appearance on one of the tires in the last photo. I took two of the front left, but the worst is the front right (pictured last)

 

[ltslimjim]

Dave's Auto Center employs four steps to repair a symptom: Condition (symptoms), Cause (diagnose what causes the symptoms), Correction (determine which cause to repair and how is it to be repaired) and Confirm (symptom is resolved and address another Cause if necessary). At this point you are still in the Condition phase. What did the new mechanic do to determine if the wheel bearing was a Cause? Test drive at low and high speeds while making left and right turns? Lift vehicle, rotate wheel, hold hand on the spring to feel and use stethoscope to hear a noisy bearing? Did the new mechanic apply any other test? If none of these tests conclusively pointed to a worn wheel bearing, then most likely the Cause is yet to be determined. A badly worn wheel bearing sufficient to cause cupping should have been an easy and confident diagnosis prior to replacement. Post replacement inspection of the wheel bearing indicates insufficient wear to cause noise. I would directly question diagnostic ability of the new mechanic.

I agree. The new mechanic didn’t do the extra testing. I’ll know to insist next time. I trusted their judgment in good faith. Lesson learned.

 

[Rand]

Where is the cupping? Do you have any angled shots that would show height differences in the tread better?
Ps turn off the 100megapixel size to a normal photo size = works fine on bitog.

There were 5 photos and looking at 5 (the last and worst?)
all I am seeing is tire.. even zoomed in I am not seeing anything severe?

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

1997 Ford F150
I moved to Harrisburg PA in 1998 and had all my oil changes and tire rotation done at the local Ford dealership. Roughly 3 to 4 service appointments. I moved about a year later to NC and upon getting an oil and tire rotation found that their was a great deal of choppiness to the ride. I surmised that I never received a single tire rotation while I lived in Pa.

 

[JohnnyG]

That's NOT cupping! If anything, there might be a little bit of feathering, which can be normal in some instances.

 

[ltslimjim]

Here are the alignment specs before and after:

 

[ltslimjim]

That's NOT cupping! If anything, there might be a little bit of feathering, which can be normal in some instances.

I think you are right.

Where is the cupping? Do you have any angled shots that would show height differences in the tread better?
Ps turn off the 100megapixel size to a normal photo size = works fine on bitog.

There were 5 photos and looking at 5 (the last and worst?)
all I am seeing is tire.. even zoomed in I am not seeing anything severe?
View attachment 230785

I think the other poster had it right: it’s feathering. Do you notice the light and dark spots alternating on the left inner tread? Those are like ridges and valleys.

That’s how it feels when I run my hands along that particular tire from the side.

It’s storming outside now, but I will try to get a side angle shot tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Rand]

I think you are right.


I think the other poster had it right: it’s feathering. Do you notice the light and dark spots alternating on the left inner tread? Those are like ridges and valleys.

That’s how it feels when I run my hands along that particular tire from the side.

It’s storming outside now, but I will try to get a side angle shot tonight or tomorrow.

I was expecting tire carnage
mild feathering on a tire with 40k miles on it... pretty normal some tires are more prone to it.. as well as some vehicles.

 

[ltslimjim]

I was expecting tire carnage
mild feathering on a tire with 40k miles on it... pretty normal some tires are more prone to it.. as well as some vehicles.

I wonder what explains the loud road noise. I think it’s due for front shocks at least and go from there. But I guess it’s also possible the front right wheel bearing was making the noise all along and got the left front replaced without needing to?

I’m gonna try to get back to my long time mechanic at their next availability. They’ve always done superb diagnostic.

 

[ltslimjim]

I should add the alignment shop said the tire with the feathering was pulling to whatever side they mounted it. It’s enough to be felt and apparently make noise while driving. That’s mild?

 

[ltslimjim]

Thanks to all who commented.

I suppose the tire wear itself wasn’t all that significant. I just wanted to demonstrate how the one tire was different from the other and I don’t know why it would be.

Also, the noise up front not changing with wheel bearing replacement was disappointing. I wasn’t sure if the noise could be from this sort of wear.

I’m going to try rotating the tires and seeing if the noise changes or not. The car is due for shocks. It seems like it wants to bounce along at any road imperfection. The Fit stock is a responsive and fairly stiff ride to begin with.