Other than wasting time/money - what drawbacks are there to 3k syn OCIs?

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Originally Posted by wemay
When we had the discussion regarding longer oci being better, i inquired the validity of this with M1, Pennzoil and Valvoline, through their tech line. According to them, there is no disadvantage whatsoever to severe service (less than 5000 mile) oci, none.


Although it might be wasteful, that's proof enough for me.
 
Nothing wrong with 3k oci, but that oil still has some life left in it. If you (or a friend/relative) has a car or lawn mower that burns oil, use this "used" oil to fill or top off. If you don't have one of these, you can probably sell it for this purpose on Craigslist! I've seen a lot dumber stuff listed (like half-empty bottles of ketchup)!
 
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In Europe long OCI's are a common standard since over a decade now.

I have no knowledge about the new generation direct injection gas engines, but for the direct injection diesels.

Company fleet cars run OCI's up to 18000 miles or longer, are usually not been driven easy since they are leased anyway and the employee is under time pressure. The engines still last a long time.

My own car, a 2.0 Peugeot HDI has been driven in Italy with 18.000 mile OCI's. The last time I changed my oil after 18.000 miles. I'm going to reduce the interval a bit and use a DPF compatible HDEO oil, the last oil was really thick when changed last time... for the lack of better words the soot was really visible.

No oil related issues, no sludge.

But we do have ultra low sulphur diesel fuel.

Changing the oil early might be advantageous for some engines, but doing it super early simply is a waste.

I change my motorcycle oil after 3000 miles, but since I use Motul 300V I recycle the old oil by using it in my lawnmower and gardening equipment.
 
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Originally Posted by edwardh1
well 3k is based on marketing, not science.
why not change at 1000 miles?


How about every Sunday?
laugh.gif
 
Most everything goes before the engine these days.

Two things that I have first hand knowledge of'

Truck here at work 2000 F-150 with a 5.4 , yearly dino oil changes, has 198,000 miles on it, motor runs like a top, body and frame are rotting away.
Friends truck 1988 Jeep J-10, never had the oil changed, EVER, quit at 188,000.
 
Piston air cooled aircraft engines (and some liquid cooled engines like the Rotax) clearly last longer when oil change intervals are kept at about 35 flight hours or below. Yes, the manufacturers specify a 100 hour OCI, as it's safe. The reason for the more frequent OCI is, as always, micro particulates and the associated wear. Of course, the fuel is leaded, the oil is different and the engines have little in common with automotive engines. Even so, the oil change is the only way certain forms of contamination (such as fuel byproducts and micro particulates) can be removed from the engine.

Furthermore, UOA results are regularly performed by aircraft engine operators. The notion that UOA "wear metals" indicate a wear-rate is, at least in the aircraft industry, completely false. While it's just my opinion, I no longer put any stock into UOA "wear rates" as valid for any reason. Clearly, UOA results can be excellent and the engine a sludged up, worn out disaster.

The bottom line remains: Choose a quality synthetic oil, change it frequently and choose sufficient viscosity. Your results will likely be excellent. Contrast that with the 3.5L ecoboost owners who use 5W-20 non syn, change at 10,000 mile intervals, then complain when their timing chains are worn out at 100,000 miles. While other 3.5 EB operators choose something like M1, 10W-30 EP, change at 5000 mile intervals and get 300,000 trouble free miles from the engine.
 
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Originally Posted by Cujet
Piston air cooled aircraft engines (and some liquid cooled engines like the Rotax) clearly last longer when oil change intervals are kept at about 35 flight hours or below. Yes, the manufacturers specify a 100 hour OCI, as it's safe. The reason for the more frequent OCI is, as always, micro particulates and the associated wear. Of course, the fuel is leaded, the oil is different and the engines have little in common with automotive engines. Even so, the oil change is the only way certain forms of contamination (such as fuel byproducts and micro particulates) can be removed from the engine.

Furthermore, UOA results are regularly performed by aircraft engine operators. The notion that UOA "wear metals" indicate a wear-rate is, at least in the aircraft industry, completely false. While it's just my opinion, I no longer put any stock into UOA "wear rates" as valid for any reason. Clearly, UOA results can be excellent and the engine a sludged up, worn out disaster.

The bottom line remains: Choose a quality synthetic oil, change it frequently and choose sufficient viscosity. Your results will likely be excellent. Contrast that with the 3.5L ecoboost owners who use 5W-20 non syn, change at 10,000 mile intervals, then complain when their timing chains are worn out at 100,000 miles. While other 3.5 EB operators choose something like M1, 10W-30 EP, change at 5000 mile intervals and get 300,000 trouble free miles from the engine.


^^This. I agree with Cujet.
 
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by Cujet
Piston air cooled aircraft engines (and some liquid cooled engines like the Rotax) clearly last longer when oil change intervals are kept at about 35 flight hours or below. Yes, the manufacturers specify a 100 hour OCI, as it's safe. The reason for the more frequent OCI is, as always, micro particulates and the associated wear. Of course, the fuel is leaded, the oil is different and the engines have little in common with automotive engines. Even so, the oil change is the only way certain forms of contamination (such as fuel byproducts and micro particulates) can be removed from the engine.

Furthermore, UOA results are regularly performed by aircraft engine operators. The notion that UOA "wear metals" indicate a wear-rate is, at least in the aircraft industry, completely false. While it's just my opinion, I no longer put any stock into UOA "wear rates" as valid for any reason. Clearly, UOA results can be excellent and the engine a sludged up, worn out disaster.

The bottom line remains: Choose a quality synthetic oil, change it frequently and choose sufficient viscosity. Your results will likely be excellent. Contrast that with the 3.5L ecoboost owners who use 5W-20 non syn, change at 10,000 mile intervals, then complain when their timing chains are worn out at 100,000 miles. While other 3.5 EB operators choose something like M1, 10W-30 EP, change at 5000 mile intervals and get 300,000 trouble free miles from the engine.


^^This. I agree with Cujet.

+1
 
There is a mod on here who has been collecting lots of data from UOAs and reports that his analysis shows that wear drops over the course of an OCI...he doesn't post an awful lot, but when he does post he is generally quite thorough and I have always found him to be worth reading.
Can't think of his moniker right now, something with Dave in it???
 
Why run syn oil for 3,000 mile intervals. there is little advantage over "conventional" oils when doing this
 
There was a member here a few years ago that was into building high performance engines and said dino oil actually showed less wear over synths when observing the internals upon tear down.
 
A friend of mine changes his oil on his Camry every 5000 kms, I change my Honda's oil every 10000 kms. I believe that each of us will sell our cars long before these cars have engine problems, because the rest of the car is getting tired and worn. So I think he's wasting his time and money.
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by OilUzer
I recall reading that it takes a while for some additives to activate and everything to kind of settle and work together ... so best is not to change too early. However, Shannow didn't say anything regarding that. idk


The additives take a while to establish tribofilms on bare metal surfaces.

However, I've seen nothing that offers that the tribofilm is removed at oil change time...completely, it may be partially.

Multiplicity of "activation" energies (probably wrong word) mean that various species make a better film...used oil does that (at the expense of other properties)...expensive is various metals and their dithios etc.

So...
For some "activated" additive...leave a quart in the sump
For avoidance of exposure to failed filters...leave the filter on for a normal OCI
For avoidance of sump plug trauma...suck it out the dipstick, leaving the quart of used, "activated" oil in the sump.

Honestly, per the spacebears study, taking a quart out regularly and on time filter changes, a perpetual regime can exist.
Doing the reverse and draining all but a quart out every 3,000 miles is another way of doing it differently

Is the process of removing the quart and topping off capable of extending the oil life? Sorry I'm not entirely sure why you'd only remove 1 quart but I'm also very intrigued if it works
 
If your going to change your oil every 3K...use the cheapest dino that meets SN spec.....
 
Nothing beats clean oil however there is a no reason to dump it early. Do a UOA to see what the lubricant is capable of and then operate within those limits. Quality oil, changed on time is the same as any oil changed way too soon IMO.
 
Originally Posted by dogememe


It sounds silly but I'd say the more often you change your oil the more often you might make a mistake or get a defective filter.
But then running a torn filter element or a failed leaf spring in the filter for a long oil change interval could lead to unfiltered oil for lots of miles . since we are going there.
 
Quote
...Contrast that with the 3.5L ecoboost owners who use 5W-20 non syn, change at 10,000 mile intervals,.. (then complain when their timing chains are worn out at 100,000 miles)….
That may be true, however not what the OP is specifically asking. Topic synthetic oil, now generally speaking SN+/Dexos Gen2 spec, at each and every 3k mile OCI, is a long way imo from 5w20 conventional at 10k mi oci. Then add ecoboost. IMO, anecdotal false equivalence.
 
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
There is a mod on here who has been collecting lots of data from UOAs and reports that his analysis shows that wear drops over the course of an OCI...he doesn't post an awful lot, but when he does post he is generally quite thorough and I have always found him to be worth reading.
Can't think of his moniker right now, something with Dave in it???

I've wondered about this as well, but haven't seen anything conclusive.
 
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