Only the thick stuff in Denmark...

[UltrafanUK]

Many major brand G4 and GTL based oils far exceed the requirements for Acea specs in OEM tests and top of the list are A3/B4 oils.
I use my own 2 cars (A 1.9 TDI and a 1.2 gas job) to experiment with, including out of spec (C2/C3) oils. The useage of the cars is very consistant, as are the UOA results.

Using A3/B4 oils when a car is not in warranty is a no brainer IF you do it early enough to allow them to help keep the oil consumption low (Might need to use an HM in older blocks). Everyone gets excited about ash levels when they should be paying more attention to oil consumption and blowby reduction.

For some reason you ignore the part of my post that says I would not use an HDEO oil in a vehicle with a DPF.

I'd post my research papers if this forum would accept direct pic's, but in oder to encourage the IT folks I'm not going to spend time posting company material to Iffy pic download sites.

Lots of cars get blocked DPF's using mid Saps oils and modernish engines don't fail like the old days, they just turn into oil burners.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
weasley - thank you for a meaningful Post

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
I've tested C3 oils (Castrol Edge TD 5w40 etc) and they double the wear metals in a TDI UOA.

Which tells us what?

 

[lars11]

What's the problem with C3? I was under the impression that it was the new A3/B3?
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Look in the bottom right hand corner.


Yep it's an 0w30, BUT be careful as some 0w Ultra oils are C3 rated for DPF afflicted diesels. Very bad news in wear terms if you use them in a non DPF job unless you use an expensive German additive that has both extra Moly (Not needed as Ultra has enough) and Boron Nitride in hexagonal form every OCI.
Oddly enough BN which is a ceramic additive will allow the use of Zinc free oils like what Mag make for the DPF long life fans.

 

[Kamele0N]

C3 has lower HTHS (2.9 vs 3.5min)... Lower TBN (cca 7-8 vs 10) in comparison with A3/B4

It is therefore less suitable for LL intervals...

 

[chrisri]

C3 and C4 have the same minimum HT-HS requirements as the A3/B4. You've probably thought about C1/C2 oils, the fuel economy version of Low /Mid SAPS oils.

 

[Kamele0N]

You are right...I confused Cx ratings.

 

[UltrafanUK]

To C or not to C, that is the question!

The oil I used was Castrol Edge TDT 5w40 which is for both C2 and C3 applications. It gave me a real fright by doubling the Iron, Alum, Copper and Lead figures, although just to confuse things I did not use half a can of Ceratec, which would have accounted for part of the jump in the Fe and Al, but not the Copper or Lead, as those figures were too low to have been reduced by its use.

I thought the turbo bearings were breaking up and causing particle streaks, BUT the figures returned back to normal (Half of the universal average) in the next UOA.

 

[chrisri]

There are probably 70% of all cars currently on European Union roads on Cx diets. Both petrol and diesels. From 05 onwards most new cars used them; by now we would see negative effects, if there were any. There isn't Engines don't blow, turbos last longer than ever. OK, metallurgy and design improved but still.

I had my concerns about C3 oils (had some problems with 1,6 hdi, and, what appeared to me then, faster share compared with the B4 oils), but I changed my mind after long talk with one of the Japanese OEM technician back in Austria.

Not to mention good inputs from the members that work in the industry. IMO C3 oils could be back specified for most engines that required A3/B4 - also remember, A3/B4 from the 2005 had similar min TBN as modern C3.

PD VW are very specific, with proper maintenance they can make big miles, but are far from brilliant.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
PD VW are very specific, with proper maintenance they can make big miles, but are far from brilliant.


Indeed - and even VW's own 505 01 spec is mid SAPS (and they allow 504 00/507 00 in PDs).

 

[bobbydavro]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
To C or not to C, that is the question!

The oil I used was Castrol Edge TDT 5w40 which is for both C2 and C3 applications. It gave me a real fright by doubling the Iron, Alum, Copper and Lead figures, although just to confuse things I did not use half a can of Ceratec, which would have accounted for part of the jump in the Fe and Al, but not the Copper or Lead, as those figures were too low to have been reduced by its use.

I thought the turbo bearings were breaking up and causing particle streaks, BUT the figures returned back to normal (Half of the universal average) in the next UOA.


It is for C3 only - it isn't for C2 applications. C2 oils are 2.9 HTHS min and have higher fuel economy requirements. The oil you mention doesnt claim ACEA C2.

So you are judging an oil by its performance, yet you didn't use this magic ceratec. How can you base the change of one factor, when you have changed two things? Oil type and decision to use Ceratec. What were the ODIs? What was the baseline oil?