On the pinch weld or not ... any consensus ...

So is there any consensus on how to jack a car while using the pinch weld ?

I've read numerous blog, forum post etc etc and ... its still not clear

1- Should we push UNDER the pinch weld with a slotted rubber or wood craddle not touching the rocker panel or .... ?

2- Should we push each side of the pinch weld (rocker only ) without touching it at all with a slotted piece of rubber or wood .....?

3- Should we push under and on both side (rocker ) of the pinch weld ?

What is your pick ? 1-2 or 3 ?

My pick is #2 so far all is good



I've read a few repair manual available online and , there is some sort of consensus.

Most advise if not all to jack from the center of the front and rear crossmember and or on very precise dedicated locations and to use the pinch weld only for the jack stands during tire replacement , whos doing that ?




Not sure why this is so confusing. And most people don't have it right. Look at the factory jack and see how it lifts the car. On my 2015/2016 Subarus the jack hits the rocker panel on both sides on the pinch weld but no force on the actual pinch weld. The pinch weld seems to only hold the jack from shifting in or out.

Now go to a Subaru dealer and I will bet they lift the car on a normal lift using the pinch weld. They could have an adapter but that would be a PIA to get all 4 adapters setup right then lift. So I will guess no special adapters.

Most adapters I see on Amazon are not deep enough to hold the vehicle the same way the factory jack does.
 
I still dont know which one is the right adaptor .... you ?

1- Just pushed under pinch weld
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2- Pushing just on the rocker
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3- Pushing under and each side
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Not sure why this is so confusing. And most people don't have it right. Look at the factory jack and see how it lifts the car. On my 2015/2016 Subarus the jack hits the rocker panel on both sides on the pinch weld but no force on the actual pinch weld. The pinch weld seems to only hold the jack from shifting in or out.

Now go to a Subaru dealer and I will bet they lift the car on a normal lift using the pinch weld. They could have an adapter but that would be a PIA to get all 4 adapters setup right then lift. So I will guess no special adapters.

Most adapters I see on Amazon are not deep enough to hold the vehicle the same way the factory jack does.
I know why its so confusing , look at the picture above :)

But I like your answer, thats also what I think , pushing on the rocker each side of the pinch weld without touching it is the way to go ... however its not a standard procedure, often different type of jack are supplied by the car makers ....

The adaptor found on the web are not the one fits all they pretend to be.

Personnaly I would keep the pinch weld for jack stand and for flat tire change out only.
Using the proper jack position recommended by the car manufacturer is the way to do.
I beleive that a floor jack not positioned correctly under the car will add side forces to the weld and bending it ...

example here for a Mitsubishi outlander , many other car makers say the same

JACKING RECOMMENDED LOCATION
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JACK STAND RECOMMENDED LOCATION


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How many people have hockey pucks lying around? And how do you cut a slot into one? Isn't it hard rubber? Why risk slicing your hand open when you can find them on ebay for a few bucks. https://www.ebay.com/itm/144297064092?hash=item2198c6769c:g:9~oAAOSwuW9hlyAp
I had some from way back, to cut the slots I used a router, took all of 5 minutes to do. I bought one of the cheap jack pads from amazon. While it was ok but I already had 3 old hockey pucks from the 90's so I figured why not. I modded one with a dremel to use for pulling my diff on the GTO, and another one for lifting it on the pinch welds, and a 3rd for my KIA. I understand your point but I already had these so its no big deal. I wouldn't go and buy new pucks and cut them up.
 
The car is designed to be lifted by the seam. My prii have cutouts in the plastic rocker panel covers to show bare (painted) reinforced metal. Many cars now have a "snakebite" or other indicator in the seam to show where the jack goes. The horizontal metal above the seam typically folds down and becomes the seam but otherwise has no structural connection. You're holding sheet metal in tension by reinventing this wheel.

That said I think those are dumb. I use the central jacking points but lower the rockers onto jackstands. I also like the "big-a fastener" that connects the front subframe to the firewall for a jacking point.

Garage lifts have an advantage-- the rear rockers will have less weight on them vs you doing one corner at home in your garage. I racked some sketchy junk during my brief stint as a tire tech. The weight of the engine will push down on the front lift points, lifting the rear ones.
 
Factory jack on pinch weld? Well if I remember correctly a Lexus jack can ruin the pinch weld and does put the pressure on it. And once bent they never hold too good again. Pinch weld jacking is like everything else designed now by complete idiots in the automotive industry, quick and cheap.
The old 2002 CLK430 Mercedes had an okay system with a plastic pad for using a floor jack on. I never used the factory jack so don't know how that one engaged the frame. I just know the correct way to have a jacking system would be a special pad with a 1 inch diameter hole in it for a jack with a pin that is covered by a plastic guard to fit that hole and help hold and locate the jack, and yes there would be a larger flanged area that contacts the surface around that hole. Maybe I need a patent. I have used hard wood with a nice slit to jack on pinch welds.
I still say all these multi thousand dollar cars need a quality jack point and a quality jack to use them, with the high cost of them there is no excuse for a crappier than a VW beetle jack point. Is there any high end car that has a good jack point nowadays? Even the dangerous bumper jacks of years past are better than some of jacks in the newer cars now.
I usually jack at the crossmembers on suspensions at the designated jack point, and use padded jack stands on the strong points of the integral frame rails, I never use a pinch weld for jack stands, too easy to mess the metal up. And no matter what you use metal to metal all you do is leave a place for rust to start. Most don't give a ________ about that though.
 
Factory jack on pinch weld? Well if I remember correctly a Lexus jack can ruin the pinch weld and does put the pressure on it. And once bent they never hold too good again. Pinch weld jacking is like everything else designed now by complete idiots in the automotive industry, quick and cheap.
The old 2002 CLK430 Mercedes had an okay system with a plastic pad for using a floor jack on. I never used the factory jack so don't know how that one engaged the frame. I just know the correct way to have a jacking system would be a special pad with a 1 inch diameter hole in it for a jack with a pin that is covered by a plastic guard to fit that hole and help hold and locate the jack, and yes there would be a larger flanged area that contacts the surface around that hole. Maybe I need a patent. I have used hard wood with a nice slit to jack on pinch welds.
I still say all these multi thousand dollar cars need a quality jack point and a quality jack to use them, with the high cost of them there is no excuse for a crappier than a VW beetle jack point. Is there any high end car that has a good jack point nowadays? Even the dangerous bumper jacks of years past are better than some of jacks in the newer cars now.
I usually jack at the crossmembers on suspensions at the designated jack point, and use padded jack stands on the strong points of the integral frame rails, I never use a pinch weld for jack stands, too easy to mess the metal up. And no matter what you use metal to metal all you do is leave a place for rust to start. Most don't give a ________ about that though.
BMW uses a similar style puck. I can buy 4 from WalMart for $20

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I've never been able to find a one size fits all solution for this with home use floor jacks. I started with a rubber puck style but found that the pinch weld is taller than the groove on the puck on some of my vehicles.

I then bought a fabricated aluminum pinch weld jack adapter. The slot was too narrow on it for some pinch welds and it would gouge the sides of the pinch weld.

The last attempt was a steel channel adapter that replaces the standard saddle on one of my floor jacks. I've found this one covers the broadest range. It's kind of similar to the OP's picture #2.

Like you say, all of these sizes and configurations are intended to apply force to the rocker panel above and typically to the inside of the pinch weld. Both of my current Nissans have 'bumps' in that location intended to endure the lifting force. If you tried to go right on the bottom of the pinch welds, you'll deform the heck out of them and crack the paint off.
 
I use one of these on my Challenger and JGC. It’s magnetic and gets between the cladding and rocker on the Dodge without any deformation.
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A 1' long 2x4 as spacer has never bent the pinch welds on my old junk when lifting the both tires off the ground on one side, I just put it on my low profile jack.
 
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It really depends on the vehicle. Clearly, some cars can be lifted from the seam with proper equipment. My Honda S2000 had such soft sheet metal, I could actually bend it using my fingers. Despite the fact that the car is specifically designed to be jacked/lifted from the rocker panel seam, with specific owner manual instructions, any attempts at doing so resulted in bent sheet metal. It was far better to get under the car with a low profile jack and use the subframe.

It was one of the reasons I got rid of the car, as the thing was made of Honda Civic parts, soft sheet metal and was nowhere near as good as the "hype" would suggest. It was a flexible-flyer and unpredictable handling characteristics were the result.
YGpzmgI.jpg

As a S2000 owner i have to Disagree completly.
There are 4 solid jack points - each on every corner of the sills - that are made for jacking the car up or for Jack stands.
These are made of doulde folded, thicker sheet metall, welded to the sills and up to the task. I have used them often without Problems.
Plus, there are two jacking points at the front axle and the differential.

Sorry, but i seems you did something wrong.

The car is rigid as a closed car thanks to is unique "X-Bone" Chassis. The stiffnes of the body and the chassis is still seen as the benchmark for roadsters. I ride it over country raods here in racing mode with 100 Mph and it feels solid like a tank.

The sheet metall for the fenders, doors etc is thin, as usuall with Hondas. I dont have a single problem with it.
But hey, porsche sells fenders etc. in extra thin for double the price because saving weight = Racing! ;)

The handling of the S2000 IS delicate, it is a car for motorcycle riders. This car is very sensitive about tires and air pessure.
You need a lot of feel in your Butt-meter and cat like reflexes. It is NOT a killer, but it is like driving "On razors edge" often. Honda has made the S2000 more forgiving over the years. There whrere at least 4 different suspension set ups from the factory over the production run of 10 Years. Every one more forgiving than before.

But hey.. it is a Sportscar, isnt it?

Here is video where a guy jacks up the S2000, you could see how sturdy the jack points at the sills are:

 
One could consider finding a factory jack for your vehicle in a junk yard, cutting off the piece that fits around the pinch weld and making an adapter for a floor jack.
 
It really depends on the vehicle. Clearly, some cars can be lifted from the seam with proper equipment. My Honda S2000 had such soft sheet metal, I could actually bend it using my fingers. Despite the fact that the car is specifically designed to be jacked/lifted from the rocker panel seam, with specific owner manual instructions, any attempts at doing so resulted in bent sheet metal. It was far better to get under the car with a low profile jack and use the subframe.

It was one of the reasons I got rid of the car, as the thing was made of Honda Civic parts, soft sheet metal and was nowhere near as good as the "hype" would suggest. It was a flexible-flyer and unpredictable handling characteristics were the result.
YGpzmgI.jpg
Funny my friend insist the chassis is super stiff and honda made the center part super reinforced. Maybe he is biased.
 
There was a comment about shops and lifts. I'm sure they use the frame members under the flooring, most cars even have a hole for a special lift bracket to locate into. I never ever jack stand on a pinch weld all it will do is let the outer parts of the jack stand U shape punch into the floor.
Pinch weld jack point is a cheapy manufacturing deal and nothing more. The old bumper jacks did less damage to the vehicle.
 
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