Older engine, Higher SAPS?

[chris719]

I can see that. I would say that they would be for all intensive purposes no worse (ex 505 vs 504) and then with every revision of a cert the performance requirements increase (504 rev 2010 vs 504 rev 2020). There must be a point of diminishing returns. After all it shouldn't matter if bearing life ends at 380k vs 400k miles when the rest of the vehicle is junk.

I think it's true as you say, but as oils improve they will use any of that wear margin for fuel economy benefits if they can as long as CAFE is around.

 

[Retirednow]

In my discussion with Dave at @High Performance Lubricants after making a similar statement on here a while back, I came away with the understanding that "it's complicated". There is no simple 1:1 replacement for ZDDP, there are however various additives/compounds that can reduce the necessary volume of ZDDP to meet the performance requirements. Some of these (borated compounds, moly) do show up on VOA/UOA's, others (certain esters) won't.

My conclusion from that exciting mental exercise was basically that if you took the full SAPS additive package and then applied the same approach, you'd end up with an even better product, because those synergies that reduce ZDDP requirements for a given level of wear performance don't disappear if you keep the ZDDP level higher, you would just reduce wear and friction further.

Downside of high/higher ZDDP?

 

[OVERKILL]

Downside of high/higher ZDDP?

Higher levels of phosphorous can damage DPF's and GPF's if an engine is consuming oil. Very high amounts can damage catalysts, but they are far less sensitive than the aforementioned emissions control devices.

 

[Retirednow]

Higher levels of phosphorous can damage DPF's and GPF's if an engine is consuming oil. Very high amounts can damage catalysts, but they are far less sensitive than the aforementioned emissions control devices.

Not a for me then. Full SAPS in all three cars