old oil better than new oil

[GMorg]

I am considering two options. First I simply do a series of rapid OCIs without filter changes (sampling at each change). Let's say 1000 mile intervals for a total of 5000 miles. If wear trends down with each change, then either the filter is getting better and removing wear metals, or may engine is getting "cleaner" due to continuous fresh oil. At the end of the 5000 miles I just leave the oil in and continue to sample at 1K intervals for the next 5K. At that point, I change the filter at 1K intervals, but not the oil. If the wear spikes at the filter change, then the "aged" filter is the key. If not, then "aged" oil is good. My vehicle as well as many, many others do not use enough oil to require make-up oil. In addition, I am very comfortable with allowing the oil to get a little low. So, if the experiment is started with "full" oil capacity (which means at least a quart more than you need) then I don't think that you would even need makup oil for the first two filter changes.

As for Gary's question: "would not you see this event at the same point regardless of how many short OCIs preceded the "test event". That is, flush/500/1000/1000/1000/1000/ and still get the upramp between 2-3k???"

I am not sure that I understand. If the oil is somehow "corrosive" or "less protective" for lack of better descriptors, then the spike would occur at each fresh oil change. Since the accumulation of non-linear wear appears to me to occur within the first 2-3K, then I am not sure what your "upramp between 2-3K" is describing.

 

[Gary Allan]

If the oil is somehow "corrosive" or "less protective" for lack of better descriptors, then the spike would occur at each fresh oil change.


The point was not "corrosive" ..the point was "as a corrosive agent would act like" -- reacting until depleted. With this you essentially agree even if you didn't grasp the associative example. It never included any "less protective" aspect to it. It could be the INTENDED action in doing what it's supposed to be doing (we don't know).

So, we agree that if this is a designed feature that is a matter of course that appears to react like a corrosive agent ..then it would occur in each and every OCI regardless of the length of the OCI. That is, if it's merely resuspension of residuals ..then multiple short OCIs well remove/reduce this figure. If, however, it's a displacement of existing AW films (AND THE ENTRAINED METALS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE AW FILM FORMATION) then it would react differently in terms of when the observed changes occur.

So ..the short OCI (1k/1k/1k/1k/3k) would sorta suggest whether it was resuspended residuals. They should be nonexistant after a certain point.

If it's a para-corrosive action ..where some agents in the virgin oil react until some equalibrium is reached ..then it should happen at the same time ..each and every OCI at the same like time/mileage/hour/fuel component point.

If it's more of a "para" ion exchange action ..where AW agents are attempting to bond with the surface metals ...then there should be some point of saturation. That is, the multiple short OCIs should create several "new brine soaks" where the "gang tackle" is at the most adventagous polaritywise. That would mean that saturation would be reached sooner and sooner in subsequent OCIs.

Is that a bit more understandable?

So, as I'll say again, although you may not be able to prove what the cause is, you can certainly eliminate a few by seeing if it's altered or not by preempting the normal OCI pattern and seeing if the action occurs in the absense of any sensible residuals.


As a comical side note: I find this like trying to discuss a paradox. I can't think in Einstein's model ..but can describe a perfect paradox that can be technologically performed. No one appears to be able to describe the REAL physical event that would occur in the dismantling of relativity ..yet the real world event(s) can be performed and some result will occur ..yet no one knows what that event(s) will be outside of "their frame of reference" ;^)

 

[GMorg]

Gary Allan,
I can accept you point of view.

I'm seriously thinking about testing some permution of this thread in a couple of Briggs&Stratton engines for faster turn-around. My "at home" model...