I just checked the website and the EPS 10 filters are now $22, up from $13. EPS 20 filters are $24. I think I'm going to start changing them only every 2 or 3 OCI's.
Oilguard owners take note.
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OUCH!
What Oil Guard is doing is "price gouging", pure and simple!
If prices went up a little bit, I could possibly belive general inflation costs. However, when prices go up that much (especially when we are talking about essentially a fancy wound ball of string), it appears that they just want to "milk a cash cow", as they know that our bypass units are useless without their filters (and it's costly to replace an already bought bypass system with a different model bypass). Due to the fact that I already have my Oil Guard units (3 of them), I'll continue to use them (unless they raise the prices again) but I will NOT recommend this company (that likes to gouge their customers) to anyone else!
Hmmm... I was just thinking. Given their now outrageous filter element purchase cost, I wonder how well it would work to "clean" those Oil Guard filters, and reuse them a few times? After all, their filter is little more than a fancy wound ball of string, so its easy to get to the filter media. If we rinse it off in some solvent (kerosene?) and then let it completely dry off, hopefully a lot of the junk would rinse out of the filter (and the contamination of the cleaning solvent would evaporate away, when you let it dry). As long as the wound string isn't overly damaged (by the "cleaning" process), maybe we will be good to go for another use (with that now "cleaned" filter)? If we can (safely) do this a few times per (Oil Guard) bypass filter element, I suspect the cost per OCI will come down considerably! Anyone see any problems with this idea?
And for that matter, I think this is finally going to tip me over to using Amsoil EAO full flow filters on my cars. Yes, they are expensive as full flow filters go, but they are still noticeably CHEAPER than the (new) price of the Oil Guard filters. And since the Amsoil EAO filters supposedly filter so much better than normal full flow filters, they will hopefully get much more of the filtering task done (leaving less work for the Oil Guard bypass, and therefore allowing the Oil Guard to go that much longer)...
If prices went up a little bit, I could possibly belive general inflation costs. However, when prices go up that much (especially when we are talking about essentially a fancy wound ball of string), it appears that they just want to "milk a cash cow", as they know that our bypass units are useless without their filters (and it's costly to replace an already bought bypass system with a different model bypass). Due to the fact that I already have my Oil Guard units (3 of them), I'll continue to use them (unless they raise the prices again) but I will NOT recommend this company (that likes to gouge their customers) to anyone else!
Hmmm... I was just thinking. Given their now outrageous filter element purchase cost, I wonder how well it would work to "clean" those Oil Guard filters, and reuse them a few times? After all, their filter is little more than a fancy wound ball of string, so its easy to get to the filter media. If we rinse it off in some solvent (kerosene?) and then let it completely dry off, hopefully a lot of the junk would rinse out of the filter (and the contamination of the cleaning solvent would evaporate away, when you let it dry). As long as the wound string isn't overly damaged (by the "cleaning" process), maybe we will be good to go for another use (with that now "cleaned" filter)? If we can (safely) do this a few times per (Oil Guard) bypass filter element, I suspect the cost per OCI will come down considerably! Anyone see any problems with this idea?
And for that matter, I think this is finally going to tip me over to using Amsoil EAO full flow filters on my cars. Yes, they are expensive as full flow filters go, but they are still noticeably CHEAPER than the (new) price of the Oil Guard filters. And since the Amsoil EAO filters supposedly filter so much better than normal full flow filters, they will hopefully get much more of the filtering task done (leaving less work for the Oil Guard bypass, and therefore allowing the Oil Guard to go that much longer)...
Based on the length of your response, you're probably pretty torqued. I am also somewhat. My options are
1) remove it.
2) use it with no filter; (fancy .5 qt capacity builder)
3) use the filters to 30K-50K intervals (I only have a 4 qt sump, I probably could get away with this)
4) design/build my own filter. I need a way to get rid of old socks.
I will probably pick #3. Fortunately I bought (12) 3 years ago and still have 6 left.
I'm still glad I picked one of these over a TP system. I'm not into changing a sopping wet roll of TP when the temps are 10 degrees F.
1) remove it.
2) use it with no filter; (fancy .5 qt capacity builder)
3) use the filters to 30K-50K intervals (I only have a 4 qt sump, I probably could get away with this)
4) design/build my own filter. I need a way to get rid of old socks.
I will probably pick #3. Fortunately I bought (12) 3 years ago and still have 6 left.
I'm still glad I picked one of these over a TP system. I'm not into changing a sopping wet roll of TP when the temps are 10 degrees F.
I also noticed the price increase
(IIRC bought a six pack of E
pS20 elements for $66 a few years ago)... I put 15k and 20k respectively on the last two OG elements with my Durarmax Diesel. Each saw three OCI's. The current element has 22k on it and is on the 4th OCI... I plan to change it at about 27-28k ... Here's a cross-sectioned pic of 20k element .. it looks like it still has life...
(click to enlarge)
more pics
[ September 17, 2006, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Bill Plock ]
pS20 elements for $66 a few years ago)... I put 15k and 20k respectively on the last two OG elements with my Durarmax Diesel. Each saw three OCI's. The current element has 22k on it and is on the 4th OCI... I plan to change it at about 27-28k ... Here's a cross-sectioned pic of 20k element .. it looks like it still has life...
(click to enlarge)
more pics
[ September 17, 2006, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Bill Plock ]
And we wonder why the Frantz and Motor-guard have a following? TP hasn't changed much in price.
I don't see it as price gouging. I see it as survival in this competitive economy. My Harvard 500 and Racor 820 have $50 elements. Someone posted the NTZ filters, available at Napa/Partsamerica, and they weren't cheap either.
Cleaning a filter is, IMO, a big no-no.
Make up for the cost change by using it twice as long.
You should contact filter manufacturers/suppliers to see if they can make you a case of similar replacement filters, or to see if they have an equivalent.
Check with Filterguy or Gary Allen. I believe that had custom made filters. Maybe they could provide you with the supplier or manufacturer.
I don't see it as price gouging. I see it as survival in this competitive economy. My Harvard 500 and Racor 820 have $50 elements. Someone posted the NTZ filters, available at Napa/Partsamerica, and they weren't cheap either.
Cleaning a filter is, IMO, a big no-no.
Make up for the cost change by using it twice as long.
You should contact filter manufacturers/suppliers to see if they can make you a case of similar replacement filters, or to see if they have an equivalent.
Check with Filterguy or Gary Allen. I believe that had custom made filters. Maybe they could provide you with the supplier or manufacturer.
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For anyone with a truck and enough room to hang a 4" cylinder of either 15" or 25", you can get standard cotton wound SS core DOE (double open end) filters in any micron rating you want. A case may cost you about $50 and will vary in number depending on if you get the standard 2" or the custom 3.5" that I ordered. I haven't done an endurance test on them ..but it's been suggested that a 20k run would be probably in a gasoline engine. The canister costs are comparable to other installations.
FWIW, on the cleaning: I work at a winery and we use BECCO depth filter pads for filtering wine. Similar to the OilGuard, they trap contaminants and by measuring differential pressure from inlet to outlet and from the in-line flow meter we can tell when the filters get "blinded". Since the OilGuard is a depth filter I can conceivably believe that extra miles could be gained, but you have to do it right! Merely washing them in kerosene won't do. Like our winery filters, where we back flush, meaning we hook hot water to the filters and flow backward under pressure to remove some of the contaminants. Then we can resume filtering. It depends on how much contaminants are in the wine, sometimes we back flush too soon, and realize we have to go to a less tighter filter pad.
I would imagine you could also do the same thing with an OilGuard filter, BUT you would have to rig up some sort of back flush affair, and flow a solvent, probably kerosene in a backward fashion in the outlet side of the filter, (inside) going to the inlet side and watch the color and clarity of the contaminants in the kerosene. If I were going to do something like this, I would also make sure to back flush clean oil at the very end through the filter, a very light viscosity oil for finishing, just to make sure that all the kerosene was out.
In the wine industry we also do similar procedure. We start filtering wine again, but none of it goes into a tank, but rather just on the cellar cement floor, and we "taste" the wine and judge when the wine has lost the "watered down" effect before hooking back up to the receiving tank. Your cost of pumps, and housings, hoses, etc just to perform a decent back flush might be cost prohibitive though.
Or.... you might check into a different style of filter system where you OilGuard is in place. I was looking at OilGuard, but am working toward the end of a By-Pass filter made by Baldwin (B50) that has a nominal 2-3 micron and absolute of 7 micron for filtering. Like the winery depth filter, slow flow is the key, as too great a flow will just pass things on out and back into the oil stream. Fortunately each B50 filter has a restrictor built in, and at around $6.00 for a filter this efficient I think is a bargain. It mounts to a 5/8" X 18 thread and there are bypass filter mounts for that thread configuration (it is a screw on like a full flow). Since you are already plumed to a location it would simply be a matter of removing the OilGuard brackets and putting in a bypass bracket, connecting the hoses again, and you're in business.
Vern
I would imagine you could also do the same thing with an OilGuard filter, BUT you would have to rig up some sort of back flush affair, and flow a solvent, probably kerosene in a backward fashion in the outlet side of the filter, (inside) going to the inlet side and watch the color and clarity of the contaminants in the kerosene. If I were going to do something like this, I would also make sure to back flush clean oil at the very end through the filter, a very light viscosity oil for finishing, just to make sure that all the kerosene was out.
In the wine industry we also do similar procedure. We start filtering wine again, but none of it goes into a tank, but rather just on the cellar cement floor, and we "taste" the wine and judge when the wine has lost the "watered down" effect before hooking back up to the receiving tank. Your cost of pumps, and housings, hoses, etc just to perform a decent back flush might be cost prohibitive though.
Or.... you might check into a different style of filter system where you OilGuard is in place. I was looking at OilGuard, but am working toward the end of a By-Pass filter made by Baldwin (B50) that has a nominal 2-3 micron and absolute of 7 micron for filtering. Like the winery depth filter, slow flow is the key, as too great a flow will just pass things on out and back into the oil stream. Fortunately each B50 filter has a restrictor built in, and at around $6.00 for a filter this efficient I think is a bargain. It mounts to a 5/8" X 18 thread and there are bypass filter mounts for that thread configuration (it is a screw on like a full flow). Since you are already plumed to a location it would simply be a matter of removing the OilGuard brackets and putting in a bypass bracket, connecting the hoses again, and you're in business.
Vern
Razl, I'll take up that experiment too. I'll be switching to TSO or Redline soon in my Toyota, and I'll change the element; I'll run several 8-10K intervals on the same filter and check the results. BTW, I read somewhere you live in Stonington; any chance you work at the boat?
Sometimes you can sell more if the elements cost more. Some people think you get what you pay for and they will go for the higher price. Back in the 60's Motor Guard told me not to sell the Motor Guards for less than the Frantz because people will think the Frantz is better than the Motor Guard. Filters are simple, the better the filter the more often it needs to be changed. To eliminate routine oil drains you must never allow the oil to get dirty and you need to add enough make up oil to keep the additives up. It might be good marketing to recommend long oil filter change intervals but the engine won't last as long. TP filters are submicronic and are mostly for people that keep a vehicle a long time. People use TP filters because they are very effective and cost effective. If you use a high quality roll such as Scott Kimberly Clark you won't have a channeling problem. I like to install my TP filters so they will drain good at shut down. If a Motor Guard won't drain it might be because air can't get into the filter. On my Legacy I have to cheat and crack the tee handle when the filter is still hot. Air enters the filter and the excess oil drains back into the crank case. On the Camry both the full flow filter and the Motor Guard drain. Any filter that cleans oil will be an absorbing type filter. They do get saturated with oil.
Ralph
Ralph
For the sake of experimenting, I was going to run my oilguard's media ASAPossible. Every 10,000 I would feel the canister after the engine warmed up to see if oil was still flowing thru the thing. Well, after 50,000, I said "enough" and changed it out. Wityh this interval, filter replacement would average out pretty cheap! Then again, I question how well it was filtering to begin with. I'm running another UOA at 10,000. Given this new news, I may just yank the system off and run a 10,000 UOA with a PureOne to compare my results. So far, my UOA have been just "pretty good".
Simple, I'd say 8-10K intervals would be extra conservative. I do at least one UOA going 20K-25K miles and compare the results. My sweet spot was about 20,000 miles. Make sure to post your results.
No, no EB for me, but the wife does works next to the boat, at the "pill". I work in Prov, RI.
No, no EB for me, but the wife does works next to the boat, at the "pill". I work in Prov, RI.
The problem with these new engines you are dealing with contamination that won't even slow down for any but the most dense filters. Even the TP filters can only filter down to about the size of cigarette smoke. the smaller stuff keeps building up in the oil. In a no routine oil drain system you are getting most of the contamination with the filter and diluting the rest with new oil added at filter change. It took me 18 years to put 240 thousand miles on the Subaru. I changed the TP once a year. That was normallty about every 12 thousand miles. I averaged an oil drain every 60,000 miles. I probably should have changed the filter about twice a year. The problem is it's not an exact science. What one car can tolerate another one can't. You can't recommend the same filter change for someone in Dallas as to someone in Denver. It was simpler in the old days,the oil turned black,you installed a TP filter and the oil thrned clear. You just told everybody to change the filter and add a quart of oil every 2,000 miles. All of your customers lived locally. Now I might send a filter to Fairbanks, Alaska and Miami, Florida on the same day. Today I am sending a big filter to one of the guys with a Dodge Cummins. As far as I know it is the best of the big filters. It should be able to beat a TP filter because of the size advantage. It holds about 4 gallons of oil. Think of a high quality roll of Scott TP 8" wide and 16" tall. It filters at the same rate as the little filters. The oil just soaks thru and comes out dry and clean. I get the filter for large marine engines but it will work anywhere you find room. The Center pull paper towels are expensive compared to regular paper towels but you get a lot more filtering ability. The trick is to get the most paper for the money.
Ralph
Ralph
Too bad there is not a cheap way to take a sample directly from your bypass filter and have it check for contaminant levels! I have a lab centrifuge, but I don't think centrifuging oil will really show me any results for particle counts, etc. So it is not a "do-it-yourself"
type of test.
Most filters will actually improve on their filtration once they have some material becoming attached. Depth filters can hold a lot of stuff, providing there is not sudden surge of flow or pressure to jolt it loose. Once a depth filter gets "blinded" is will cease to provide adequate flow, even though there might be good pressure. I would think it would be advantageous to have an oil cap return spot so you could very easily monitor the returning oil during any time the engine was running.
Most filters will actually improve on their filtration once they have some material becoming attached. Depth filters can hold a lot of stuff, providing there is not sudden surge of flow or pressure to jolt it loose. Once a depth filter gets "blinded" is will cease to provide adequate flow, even though there might be good pressure. I would think it would be advantageous to have an oil cap return spot so you could very easily monitor the returning oil during any time the engine was running.
Can you say pro-pri-e-tary? They do it with all sorts of stuff. It's good business, but bad marketing, and when the customers finally get wise it's game over. Sell the razor for a buck and sell 'em blades forever for whatever the market will bear. That's where the money is. Sorry for pointing out the obvious. Any Amsoil reps gonna comment here?
That is the only way that I take my samples..
I have the bypass routed to the oil cap on my truck. So, I just take off the cap with the truck running and let that stream go directly into the sample bottle..
Seems to work good for me
A tee and valve at the inlet of the filter will work fine for getting a sample. A sample from the fill cap is cheating because it is after it has gone thru the filter. I had a Caterpillar sampler that pulled oil out of the dip stick tube but it was too messy to deal with. It is good to have some sort of cap on the sample valve so you won't get dirt in the sample. I have an instrument that tells me if the oil is contaminated. You zero it on new oil the same brand as the oil in the engine. It's for fleets with heavy duty diesel equipment. If the gauge shows the oil is contaminated you send a sample to the lab to find out what is in it. My tractor showed a high reading. Found out it was getting rain water in the engine from a leaky fill cap gasket.
Ralph
Ralph
Except the price of the OilGuard filter cases wasn't even close to a buck. And while it was very obvious that they were making good profits on the filters (they can't cost that much to make), this huge price increase is just "milking the cash cow" (which goes beyond simple proprietary pricing).
As to me, I've decided to continue to use the OilGuard units for the present, as (even with the price increase) I can still get a few years worth of OilGuard filters for the price of replacing my bypass with some other (cheaper filter media) brand bypass unit. So given the bypass unit replacement costs, it still makes economic sense to continue to use the bypass units I have installed (even with the OilGuard filter price increase), instead of replacing them with some other bypass units. But that doesn't mean I'm happy about it, nor does it mean that I'll ever install another OilGuard product (just that I'll keep using the ones I already have installed, because the cost of switching to something else is an even worse option).
Now that said, this little ________ has finally got me to switch over to Amsoil AEO full flow filters (which weren't on the market yet, when I got the OilGuard units), instead of the "NAPA Gold" filters I used to use (too bad I have several unused "NAPA Gold" filter I bought on sale, that I now don't have a use for). And with the greater filtration of the AEO filters (over most full flow filters), I probably can run the (OilGuard) bypass filters much longer than I used to do (since the AEO filters should grab a large fraction of the junk in the oil, leaving the OilGuard filter to just "clean up" what is left).
And the "good news" is that even if I overestimate how long I can run the OilGuard filters, and they do plug up (by running them too long), it's unlikely to harm the engine. After all, I would expect that if the bypass filter "plugged up" (and therefore lost its flow), the vehicle would just revert to using just the normal full flow filter (acting like the bypass line, which is teed off the oil pressure sensor, wasn't installed in the first place). And so with the much better EAO full flow filter installed, I feel OK with running the OilGuard bypass much longer (then I use to) to save on cost (as the bypass unit is IMHO much less needed, than it was before the extra good full flow filters were on the market). And at least on two (of my three) vehicles with the OilGuard unit, it's very easy to check for a blocked bypass (as the bypass returns via the oil cap, on those two cars).
If your bypass filter is any good there is nothing for the full flow filter to do except to grab anything large that gets in the oil. There is almost nothing in the oil of a good engine large enough to be removed by the full flow filter. About the only reason I change the full flow filter is the internal parts will eventually break down. I normally change the full flow filter once every 2 years. A one quart filter that cleans oil normally needs to be changed every 2,000 miles on a 8; 3,000 on a 6; and 4,000 on a 4. If you run a filter until it cloggs you have messed up big time. I gave up making money selling bathroom tissue. There are too many people selling it.
Ralph
Ralph
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