Anybody got any thoughs as to whether using an oil with Moly can clog oil injectors in the bottom of the cylinders. If Moly coats/plates metal surfaces and the film is thick enough, is it not possible? Could this be why some diesel enging manufacturers say do not use oil with Moly? Hate to mention the word motorcycle, but my '99 TC-88 Harley has oil injectors and I have just put oil with Moly in it, so that's why I ask.
Oil with Moly and engine oil injectors
- Thread starter doyall
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Molydithio.... "plates up" (crappy words) under pressure and heat. This is not going to happen with squirter nozzles.
The oil squirter openings are not that small anyhow.
The oil squirter openings are not that small anyhow.
The engine service manual says that the oil injectors do not start injecting oil until about 10-12 psi. Will this factor into the anaylsis?
no
Doyall,
Could you see moly powder in the oil you used in your cycle? If so, you might have a problem. If the oil was completely clear, you used the type of moly that is no problem.
There are at least three type of moly we talk about. Powdered molybdenum disulfide is the solid form. It's properly used in gear oil and grease, not engine oil nor hydraulic oil.
Liquid, transparent, compounds of molybdenum carbamate are used in engine oil and industrial hydraulic oil (not in ATF or tractor hydraulic oil with wet clutches or brakes, but works well in motorcycle wet clutches). It cannot clog anything. Under heat and pressure of metal-to-metal contact it will plate a film of extreme pressure anti-wear material never more than half-a-ten-thousanths thick.
Compounds of molybdenum phosphate were accused of causing damage in diesel engines. I'm not sure that this was actually a cause of damage, and I do not think any oil company uses this material.
Ken
[ September 03, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]
Could you see moly powder in the oil you used in your cycle? If so, you might have a problem. If the oil was completely clear, you used the type of moly that is no problem.
There are at least three type of moly we talk about. Powdered molybdenum disulfide is the solid form. It's properly used in gear oil and grease, not engine oil nor hydraulic oil.
Liquid, transparent, compounds of molybdenum carbamate are used in engine oil and industrial hydraulic oil (not in ATF or tractor hydraulic oil with wet clutches or brakes, but works well in motorcycle wet clutches). It cannot clog anything. Under heat and pressure of metal-to-metal contact it will plate a film of extreme pressure anti-wear material never more than half-a-ten-thousanths thick.
Compounds of molybdenum phosphate were accused of causing damage in diesel engines. I'm not sure that this was actually a cause of damage, and I do not think any oil company uses this material.
Ken
[ September 03, 2003, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]
Ken2, I am using Castrol GTX 20w50. It was clear and didn't appear to contain any powder or solids like you describe. Think I should ask Castrol if they use the molybdenum carbamate variety?
It won't plate that thick enough to cause any problems. It's safe. Most Moly used in almost all oils today is a Syn/moly and can not be filtered out. Some is Clear Some is Green, Some is Dyed, but unledd your Oil looks Black, it's Syn.
It's not the right oil but I'm doing an Auto-Rx treatment and didn't want to put an expensive oil in for a 750 mile run. Appreciate the info.
[ September 06, 2003, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
[ September 06, 2003, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: doyall ]
I don't know if that oil is correct for your engine, but the moly in Castrol will not be a cause of problems with the piston cooling nozzles.
Ken
Not proper? -Not correct. It Can and is still used in engine oil with very good results. The problem was years ago when a lot of people started using it, was they did not have their formulas down, and most of them had problems ad dropped using it. It use to FALL out, and the moly itseld was larger in mose of these formulas, so they would PLUG stuff like filters and passage ways up, but not all of them FELL or FALL out. Anyhow since the SYN/Moly is so much cheaper with almost as good results, in a lot of ways much better.
I agree. I am currently using a moly di-suph. additive in my V8. The label says average particle size less than 1 micron which will pass through most common oil filters.
All I know is that the engine starts easier after sitting for 5 days that it did before the moly additive. I will be doing a UOA soon, but as it is the first UOA for this engine, the results may be meaningless.
Dave
All I know is that the engine starts easier after sitting for 5 days that it did before the moly additive. I will be doing a UOA soon, but as it is the first UOA for this engine, the results may be meaningless.
Dave
MolaKule
Staff member
Powdered Moly Disulfide is a gray-green powder that looks like ground-up cast iron. It's particle size ranges from 0.3 to 1.25 microns, depending upon how finely ground it is before being put into suspension.
It is mostly used in greases and gear oils. After a few high temperature cycles, it may leave a gray/black film on gears, bearings, etc.
Moly dithiocarbamate or Moly dialkyldithiocarbamate (MoTDC) is supplied in a concentrated form in a highly viscous alkylamine fluid to be used in engine oils. It ranges in color from almost clear to dark amber, depending on the supplier. It is fully in solution and mixes well with the host oil(s).
Atomically speaking, the MoTDC molecule contains moly, sulfur, and carbon atoms arranged to provide Friction Modification, anti-oxidant capabilities, and anti-wear functionality. In engines, it leaves no film that can be seen with the naked eye. Scanning Electron Microscope studies have to be done to see the actual film.
It is mostly used in greases and gear oils. After a few high temperature cycles, it may leave a gray/black film on gears, bearings, etc.
Moly dithiocarbamate or Moly dialkyldithiocarbamate (MoTDC) is supplied in a concentrated form in a highly viscous alkylamine fluid to be used in engine oils. It ranges in color from almost clear to dark amber, depending on the supplier. It is fully in solution and mixes well with the host oil(s).
Atomically speaking, the MoTDC molecule contains moly, sulfur, and carbon atoms arranged to provide Friction Modification, anti-oxidant capabilities, and anti-wear functionality. In engines, it leaves no film that can be seen with the naked eye. Scanning Electron Microscope studies have to be done to see the actual film.
Thanks Mola, good info. I would prefer to use the MoTDC, but can't seem to find any over this side of the pond
Dave
Dave
Thought they could be a little finer ground.
I have some moly powder (two samples) one is about 20 years old the other is about a year old... Both are GRAY / Silver looking, is this a specific type or can it be several colors>?
put some natural moly in there, would that leave a blackish area, and a clear area>???
Do you know how long it takes to wear away on it's own if for instance you were to drain all the oil, then fill-up with an oil without moly?
I have some moly powder (two samples) one is about 20 years old the other is about a year old... Both are GRAY / Silver looking, is this a specific type or can it be several colors>?
When the layers are wearing off and one were to
put some natural moly in there, would that leave a blackish area, and a clear area>???
Do you know how long it takes to wear away on it's own if for instance you were to drain all the oil, then fill-up with an oil without moly?
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