Oil temperature

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Chicagoland
@Skippy722 what happens if you use 0W-30 or 0W-40 in one of these upgraded Pentastar V6 engines?
Most likely nothing. I ran 0w40 in my Pentastars (neither was PUG) and the only difference was 40psi hot cruising oil pressure instead of 30psi.


Wow, that's pretty cool! Do you know if they have the same V6 engine in the Charger from 2016 until now? Thank you.
The Charger, Challenger, and 300 are still using the 1st generation Pentastar.
 
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474
Location
North Carolina
Most likely nothing. I ran 0w40 in my Pentastars (neither was PUG) and the only difference was 40psi hot cruising oil pressure instead of 30psi.

Well, looking at the 2020 Charger owner's manual, it still allows 5W-30 for the 3.6 Pentastar, so I guess it's a Gen 2 motor? Here: https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/servicemanuals/dodge/2020-charger.pdf

I'd probably run Mobil 1 EP 5W-30, RGT 5W-30, or M1 0W-40 if I had one. Nothing against 5W-20, but I live in the south.
 
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Colorado Springs
I have often wondered about doing the same on my E90 N52. The water cooled heat exchanger would also warm the oil up faster in the winter which would be another good benefit. The N55 in the F3X chassis cars got both the oil cooler and the oil heat exchanger attached to the OFH, although that is a nightmare of plumbing when you have to work on the front of the motor.
I think I am going to do it once my gasket is due for change.
Also, how is that MT-LV in Ontario winter? I am about to put D4 in gearbox.
 

OVERKILL

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Clearly I am missing something. Can you explain?

I think he's running with the fact that the modern HEMI's combustion chamber isn't a true hemisphere and rolling it into some wild conspiracy. HEMI is of course a trademark owned by FCA, so the fact that the current iteration has quench areas on either side of the chamber (not much different from the BOSS 429 having the same despite having an otherwise hemispherical chamber) is really irrelevant to what they call the engine.
 
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FL, USA
I think he's running with the fact that the modern HEMI's combustion chamber isn't a true hemisphere and rolling it into some wild conspiracy. HEMI is of course a trademark owned by FCA, so the fact that the current iteration has quench areas on either side of the chamber (not much different from the BOSS 429 having the same despite having an otherwise hemispherical chamber) is really irrelevant to what they call the engine.

Ah. Well that shows my ignorance on the subject. I was unaware that is why they were named "HEMI". HEMI = EcoBoost = EcoTec = SkyActive = Earthdreams = TSI in my mind. It's just a name given to an engine by the manufacturer.
 
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2,187
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Arizona
It's interesting though that German automotive engineers never pushed for light motor oils.

I think that’s due to the European philosophy toward fuel conservation (and maybe engine design?) that prevailed until fairly recently. The European strategy has long been to use sky-high fuel prices as the mechanism for fuel conservation, rather than to try to directly regulate auto manufacturers into making their engines more fuel efficient.
 
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Arizona
I was just put onto an X Gauge for my ScanGauge by a member here (thanks Cdn17Sport6MT!) so that I can monitor engine oil temp in my SkyActive Mazda. Yesterday afternoon it was running around 200F while I was driving down the freeway. It cooled off yesterday, to only 100 degrees. Engine oil temp (after one drive) seems like it wants to run 2 - 5 degrees F lower than ATF temp while driving down the freeway. Both are above engine coolant temp.
 
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7,288
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California
I never check it on my cars - no need to. I had a friend who keeps the MFD on his VWs on the oil temp, not as critical on a EA888 CCTA engine in his GTI, but he was watching it like a hawk on his old A3 Jetta VR6. I remember he got the oil up to 250*F and I asked him what oil? He was using GTX 10W-30, I got him to switch over to M1 0W-40 or Red Line 5W-30. That was good for a 20 degree drop.
 
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Location
North Carolina
I think that’s due to the European philosophy toward fuel conservation (and maybe engine design?) that prevailed until fairly recently. The European strategy has long been to use sky-high fuel prices as the mechanism for fuel conservation, rather than to try to directly regulate auto manufacturers into making their engines more fuel efficient.

I don't think it's that. European countries always taxed the BeJesus out of gasoline and Diesel. Small displacement turbo-diesel cars have been the norm for a long time, and before that, NA-diesel engines. Heck, they even got small-displacement gasoline-turbo engines right, in the 90's. Europeans conserved fuel through behavior. Public transport is well developed in all European countries. I don't think that we can beat the laws of physics, neither do I think that too thick or too thin oils are good. We are at the point where we compromise reliability for sub 1% fuel savings, just so more cars can sit in traffic idling. No worries, people defeat start-stop all the time, it's stupid. Amazingly though, over the past 15 years, vehicles haven't become any more fuel-efficient. Heck, in 2007, I owned a 2005 Hyundai Santa FE 4WD (that was the full-time 4WD model), 2.7L, and it was averaging 25MPG. You know, that model that looked like an insect getting ready to give birth to another insect - a very ugly car, but I needed a cheap SUV—my 2018 Santa Fe Sport 2WD with a 2.4GDI motor averages about 22MPG. I only get 28MPG on the highway, if I baby it. It doesn't matter if I run 5W-20, 5W-30, or 0W-40. The point is that unless the engine is carefully engineered, designed, and assembled with surgical precision, just speaking a thinner oil for it won't do anything but compromise its reliability. Just ask Hyundai, they did this and due to fuel dilution. poor maintenance, and neglect, owners killed a lot of their own engines with thin and cheap oil. This particular 2.4GDI was never designed to run on 5W-20, and Hyundai finally put the final nail in it's coffin with the 2021 Hyundai Santa Fe, as that was the last vehicle using it, oh, and the Tucson. It's built about as well as a VW diesel engine from the early 90s.

German auto manufacturers have also used thicker oils to compensate for cost-cutting. Well, at least they did that much. What's worrisome is when I see a Honda 1.5T engine that takes 3.7 quarts of 0W-20 oil, filter included. It's an economy class engine, built to a price point, with all possible corners cut. At the very least, Honda could have given this motor a bigger sump so that motor oil can stay fresh longer. It would have given this engine a fighting chance to deal with fuel dilution. About 5 to 6 quarts would have been right.

Anyway, back on topic, if oil temperatures are not kept perfectly in check inside these engines, especially in pickup trucks used for hauling and towing, then long term reliability is absolutely compromised. So much for saving the planet and the climate and whatnot, because building new vehicles all the time does more harm than the tiny bit of (questionable) fuel savings that we get by building these modern engines with exotic coatings running on sewing machine oil. But what do I know...
 
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Indiana
My 20 Laramie Hemi temps today.
A9ADB52C-DDD2-498F-9D51-5E1878DA0150.jpeg
 
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7,288
Location
California
German auto manufacturers have also used thicker oils to compensate for cost-cutting. Well, at least they did that much. What's worrisome is when I see a Honda 1.5T engine that takes 3.7 quarts of 0W-20 oil, filter included. It's an economy class engine, built to a price point, with all possible corners cut. At the very least, Honda could have given this motor a bigger sump so that motor oil can stay fresh longer. It would have given this engine a fighting chance to deal with fuel dilution. About 5 to 6 quarts would have been right.
I remember when a Mercedes V8 needed 8.5-9 quarts of oil to fill the sump and a Porsche can easily swallow 12 quarts of oil. SBCs took a gallon of oil. But dry sumps like that found on the newer Corvette, Harleys and the GT40/LFA don’t take that much oil. I was watching a video of a Lexus dealer tech changing oil on an LFA, it took 2 5qt jugs of M1 5W-50. I was expecting a 12-14qt capacity when the oil tank, coolers and lines were accounted for.

Daimler’s reasoning that more oil capacity allowed for some passive cooling via increased thermal mass and longer drain intervals. On a small NA engine like the one found in a Fit I can see a 3qt sump. Some Toyotas and Subarus use a liquid-to-liquid oil cooler plumbed with the cooling system but even so their sumps are kinda small(5-6qt with filter). Nissan tends to be the worst offender with small oil pans but they don’t sludge up as much as say, a Toyota or VW does.
 

ls1mike

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I think he's running with the fact that the modern HEMI's combustion chamber isn't a true hemisphere and rolling it into some wild conspiracy. HEMI is of course a trademark owned by FCA, so the fact that the current iteration has quench areas on either side of the chamber (not much different from the BOSS 429 having the same despite having an otherwise hemispherical chamber) is really irrelevant to what they call the engine.
Kind of like a Vortec, isnt' really a Vortec anymore. They just use the name.

The Caprice has a pretty good size oil cooler and an 8 quart pan. I don't think I have seen it go over 195. using M1 5W-30.
 
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474
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Kind of like a Vortec, isnt' really a Vortec anymore. They just use the name.

Maybe the Vortec is a HEMI now :ROFLMAO:

I remember when a Mercedes V8 needed 8.5-9 quarts of oil to fill the sump and a Porsche can easily swallow 12 quarts of oil. SBCs took a gallon of oil. But dry sumps like that found on the newer Corvette, Harleys and the GT40/LFA don’t take that much oil. I was watching a video of a Lexus dealer tech changing oil on an LFA, it took 2 5qt jugs of M1 5W-50. I was expecting a 12-14qt capacity when the oil tank, coolers and lines were accounted for.

Daimler’s reasoning that more oil capacity allowed for some passive cooling via increased thermal mass and longer drain intervals. On a small NA engine like the one found in a Fit I can see a 3qt sump. Some Toyotas and Subarus use a liquid-to-liquid oil cooler plumbed with the cooling system but even so their sumps are kinda small(5-6qt with filter). Nissan tends to be the worst offender with small oil pans but they don’t sludge up as much as say, a Toyota or VW does.

To what do smaller sumps, thinner oils, and gasoline direct injection add up?
 
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2,230
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Lyndhurst NJ
My N52 does not have OFH with heat exchanger. I am wondering how much it would help if I add OFH from N52's for 528, X3? You familiar with that?
There is a kit out there I believe that has everything included from BMW for the 52s. I think it was more of an issue for the turbos, one of our customers tracks her 328xi and said she never saw above 2 ticks past the halfway, so I think the change would be negligible. Not worth the investment most likely.
 
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7,288
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To what do smaller sumps, thinner oils, and gasoline direct injection add up?
For one, increased oil dilution but we haven’t seen Honda’s 1.5T drop like flies left and right but the jury is out on engine life. The GM 1.4T seems to be hard on oil but GM has their own oil spec that goes above and beyond API/ILSAC specs to mitigate some of those risks inherent in a small, TGDI engine.

Hondas were known to be easy on their oil.
 
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