Oil temperature

Curious, isn't it?

I do see there was a reply, but my very first thought was that a smaller engine would generate more heat, especially if tasked to do the same amount of work.

Add forced induction ? and those oil temps should get higher faster, and perhaps stay there.

I am catching up on reading this thread, but I wonder if the 6 had higher temps than the 8.. or vice versa.
 
@OVERKILL
I've mentioned it briefly before. I find the temps in my Passat 2.0T (Budack cycle) are very low when compared to non-Budack 2.0T. Normal day-to-day sees 186f-203f. Even on a drive across florida, the maximum i saw was a 5 minute sustained 208f. I've begun to wonder if the requirements for a 0W-20 is, in part, for these low temps.
 
@OVERKILL
I've mentioned it briefly before. I find the temps in my Passat 2.0T (Budack cycle) are very low when compared to non-Budack 2.0T. Normal day-to-day sees 186f-203f. Even on a drive across florida, the maximum i saw was a 5 minute sustained 208f. I've begun to wonder if the requirements for a 0W-20 is, in part, for these low temps.

If thinner oil does transfer heat better then you may be on to something.
 
Just a few things to help people ponder on the issue. Oil temperature is affected strongly by rpm. Those runs in the mountains cause your engine to gear down and spin at a higher rpm. Secondly, most factory oil coolers are plumbed through a tube in your radiator. Some high performance ones might have its own little radiator. Don’t get an oil cooler mixed up with an auxiliary radiator cooler. Lots of vehicles come with auxiliary rad coolers that look like miniature radiators. The temperature inside the rad is usually 212F or so. That means the oil cooler tries to bring the oil temp down to at best, to something near 212 F. Whatever, you oil, the Kv 100 is measured at 100 C (212 F). If your oil is heated above 212, your viscosity is lower, than you think. It’s up to you to decide what’s practical for you. 234 F is not very spooky but 275F is. I’m not talking about what the oil limitations are, I’m referring to what the actual viscosity in centistokes is at those operating conditions. The experts can now come in with their HTHS numbers. :)
 
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Isn't that 2.3L EcoBoost the one with the head gasket issues? You're right, the V8 is where it's at!

I didn't follow that issue too closely but as far as I remember, the 2.3L EB that had that issue was the one in the Focus RS.
 
My N52 does not have OFH with heat exchanger. I am wondering how much it would help if I add OFH from N52's for 528, X3? You familiar with that?

I have often wondered about doing the same on my E90 N52. The water cooled heat exchanger would also warm the oil up faster in the winter which would be another good benefit. The N55 in the F3X chassis cars got both the oil cooler and the oil heat exchanger attached to the OFH, although that is a nightmare of plumbing when you have to work on the front of the motor.
 
They went to great lengths to reduce friction in the Pentastar, and even more in the PUG V6, that’s the only thing I can think of.

What did they exactly do to reduce friction, especially in the V6 found in the Grand Cherokee (the one requiring 0W-20)?
 
What did they exactly do to reduce friction, especially in the V6 found in the Grand Cherokee (the one requiring 0W-20)?

Is it 0W-20 or 0W-16?

And. First guess, Molybdenum coated pistons and other engine innards
Lighter weight engine parts ?
All aluminum, meaning never overheat it not even one time ??
 
It's 0W-20 and I don't think they'll ever cross into 0W-16 territory. Thin oils were meant for small displacement engines, so it's quite the anomaly that we have them on trucks and SUVs now.

QUOTE="JT20, post: 5530514, member: 90868"]
First guess, Molybdenum coated pistons and other engine innards
[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I don't like thin coatings of anything. I think Hyundai tried it with their first gen Theta II engines, known for fuel dilution, and then people being people ran those motors into the ground by running whatever 5W-20 the dealerships were putting in them for far too long until the coating got scraped off and then they started knocking. I owned four of those engines and never had any issues, but I always ran Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 in them until this very recent one, using 0W-40 in it.

Lighter weight engine parts ?

How would that help with friction?
 
How would that help with friction?

Well I may be wrong but, lighter forces acting upon and interacting with each other in any load setting, from idle to redline?

Pistons crank cam anything in the rotating assembly right on out to the pulleys..
 
I wonder if that is one of the displays on the Torque app... Do all vehicles put out that info or have that sensor as per OBD or ECU data? Or does the car not really care. Maybe some models would do something with how hot the oil is.

Or do they only care about coolant temp?

I do realize this particular discussion seems gravitas towards the Ram, 300, FCA.
I’m not sure I would think all of them would after a certain year. The manufacturers probably only car about coolant temperature most likely.
 
Well I may be wrong but, lighter forces acting upon and interacting with each other in any load setting, from idle to redline?

Pistons crank cam anything in the rotating assembly right on out to the pulleys..

Lighter pistons produce less inertia and move around less in the bore which helps ring seal. Lighter pistons, rods, and rings means less bobweight at the crank which means smaller counterweights, reducing windage. This is really only a concern though at high rpm (>7k rpm).
 
Lighter pistons produce less inertia and move around less in the bore which helps ring seal. Lighter pistons, rods, and rings means less bobweight at the crank which means smaller counterweights, reducing windage. This is really only a concern though at high rpm (>7k rpm).

I can only use my car as reference but the EA888 (1.8T/ now 2.0T) in the VW Passat went from using an oil spec requiring >3.5hths in 2017 to one requiring an hths around 2.6 in 2018-present. Again, the main difference is the Budack compression cycle but other differences are...

  • "Redesigned piston rings to improve gas sealing and reduce friction
  • A down-sized turbo charger that requires a lower drive pressure, thus reducing turbo lag
  • Redesigned intake ports to improve gas flow
  • Narrower balancing shaft drive chain to reduce weight
  • Reduced main bearing journal diameters on the crankshaft to reduce both friction and weight. While the weight saving is significant, reducing the journal diameter from 52 mm to 48 mm to reduce friction was made possible as the result of this engine’s lower brake mean effective pressure at high, or maximum engine loads as compared to a conventional AE888 engine."

From:
 
Lighter pistons produce less inertia and move around less in the bore which helps ring seal. Lighter pistons, rods, and rings means less bobweight at the crank which means smaller counterweights, reducing windage. This is really only a concern though at high rpm (>7k rpm).

It's interesting though that German automotive engineers never pushed for light motor oils. German cars had a good reputation, especially in the 80's and 90's. Even now they're good vehicles, it's just that for one, they have a lot of things that you as an owner need to keep track of, and the other thing is that they are built to be maintained. Because if you don't, and most owners don't, then they go to waste.

Transmissions are a different story altogether. For transmissions, thin ATF fluid seems to work well as long as the transmission is well designed. But things are different in engines. You have forces pushing and pulling, rotational mass, pistons changing direction up and down, timing chains, and so on. In an engine, the oil has to deal with way more than in a transmission, including contamination from fuel and combustion air (particles that get in). For example, a thicker oil film will hold particles that otherwise cause wear much better than a thin oil.

What gets me is how LSPI has become such a huge justification to reformulate all mainstream motor oils. Wouldn't it have been easier to have a separate lineup, lets say of 0W-20 oils (since GM loves them so much) formulated just to deal with LSPI issues? It's a bandaid solution anyway, and not even a good one. Seized turbos and blown motors are nothing new when it comes to those anemic 1.5L and smaller engines. I rented an Opel Insignia last year in Europe with a 1.5L Turbo. It was gutless and no fun to drive. At least I rented a 6 speed manual. It was weak, and at best, it had the fuel economy of a 2.4L GDI engine (if I was babying it).

Anyway, I am starting to wonder about this ever greater push for thinner oils. Most engines I owned seemed happy with an oil that is 9 to 12 cSt at 100C. Why the push for thinner and thinner oil? Might as well build engines with polymer-coated bearings and moly coated pistons and run straight 0W in them, as ~3 cSt @ 100C oughta do it. Okay, my small rant is over. :ROFLMAO:
 
the Hemi is NOT a Hemi for a long time!!! typical BS marketing to sell as our governments allows outright LIES about many things!!!
Close enough ;)
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What did they exactly do to reduce friction, especially in the V6 found in the Grand Cherokee (the one requiring 0W-20)?
Diamond like coating on the piston pins, super low friction timing chain guides, new valve springs, low tension piston rings. The v6 requiring 0w20 is the Pentastar upgrade, found in 2016-present models. They changed quite a bit in it.
 
Diamond like coating on the piston pins, super low friction timing chain guides, new valve springs, low tension piston rings. The v6 requiring 0w20 is the Pentastar upgrade, found in 2016-present models. They changed quite a bit in it.

Wow, that's pretty cool! Do you know if they have the same V6 engine in the Charger from 2016 until now? Thank you.
 
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