Oil Study Donations (Z- Report)

[MolaKule]

I sent a number of base oils and additives to the lab for comparison runs but the additives I sent were proprietary to SF and the additive companies.

 

[bruce381]

Yes but you know as well as I that if you did not hit upon the ELF Polymer that all the IR work done will not tell you exactly what polymer is used and the more in put on what polymers were/to be tested the better. No offense but you or I do not have a handle on evey polymer/ester combination out there with the large number of suppliers. With out peer review of what was sent in the chances of finding out what the ELF's use is a LONG shot. Or how about just a MFG list of polymers sent in?
Happy to help email if you want.
Bruce

 

[MolaKule]

No offense to you, but this is not a referred science journal.

Disclosure still not an option.

If you would like to take on the responsibility for the next study then speak to Vetteman.

 

[bruce381]

Ok I'll run the IR someone send me a sample of gold and green I'll run them.
bruce

 

[pscholte]

The Elves will provide the popcorn when the documentary film premiers.

 

[bruce381]

As the man says "money talks BS walks" I'll do an IR on both the gold and green and see if they are the same.
bruce

 

[Terry]

bruce381, Mobil, did a IR on a sample of the oil formula in question and a company engineer declared publicly here that it was a well added group III. I note he disappeared not long after that post here.

Wrong.

Zoil test was a EI and CI mass spec test. The results that were shared with the payers included the base oils primarily the add pack was not in question since low cost FTIR and spectro can provide those answers definitively.

Indeed the library of odd polymer chemistries is a troublesome thing. ELF ? Where did you come up with that ? What fluid are they offering ?

Money indeed does talk and as of this moment I would love to run any brand or chemistry that the group cares to. I prefer solid Gas Chrom desorp mass spec or NMR technology unless you have access to something more accurate.
Right now I cannot find a lab that I trust or who will do what I ask for reasonable cost.

BTW, I have been trying to return your calls with no success.


At your service, Terry

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by bruce381:
As the man says "money talks BS walks" I'll do an IR on both the gold and green and see if they are the same.
bruce

---

"The Man" never met THE Elves.

They don't have those two initials in their vocabulary...and you can take that to the bank. By the way banks take Green or Gold.

 

[bruce381]

"bruce381, Mobil, did a IR on a sample of the oil formula in question and a company engineer declared publicly here that it was a well added group III. I note he disappeared not long after that post here."

Which oil the gold or green since I thought green was NOT GPIII?

Terry I'm going to run IR on the green oil and on a few polymers I think are in it see if there is a match. Can email me any time its on the profile thing. "ELFs" I mean the green GC syntec.
All I need is a sample of the gold anyone want to share?
bruce

 

[Terry]

German made Castrol 0w-30 was what he stated.

It is not a GRPIII based product.

Thanks for the clarification, I thought you were saying ELF oil of France was building a similar product.

BTW, Bruce are you independent or working for a lube company ?

Terry

 

[bruce381]

32 years blending specalty lubricants CLS, NTMA, STLE, SAE
bruce

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry:
Thanks for the clarification, I thought you were saying ELF oil of France was building a similar product.Terry

---

Oh Monsieur Terry,

With ELF for a company name, you must always suspect something magical going on in the petite blending chalet near Le Mans surrounded by a tall hedge and within hearing of the engine music drifting in from the Mulsanne Straight not so far away.

 

[Terry]

I pm'd you. Appreciate/respect the monikers above.

independent or employed, if so by who ?

Inquiring minds want to know.

If you have been in this business that long you understand how competitive it can be and disclosure is a healthy thing.

Appreciate the willingness to share your testing results here !

Terry

 

[bruce381]

Terry: I tried to email but box is full. I do not blend small quarts or even gallon size and can care less whats in the GC BUT after seeing all the reactions about GC and all the BS, though it would be fun to back engineer it. LOL That way I can make my own for nothing.

Right now I'm using a juiced up 10/30 CI-4/SL, PAO and GP III blend with a TBN 10 works fine in all my cars.

Do my own wear analysis and trouble shooting
aswell as plant lubrication surveys something of a lost art nowdays.

Independent or employed good question people at my company say I'm never working since they think lab time is not working.

NOT a competitor to you or anyone else here.

Learned the business from some of the best major oil (General Petroleum who knows that name? Mobil, Chevron, Shell) engineers 30 years ago all now retired or passed on back when the majors had LE's now they are all college kids with no practicle background at all book smarts but NO hands on work.

Bruce

 

[Terry]

Thanks for the feedback bruce381.

I really just wondered who you worked for.

I haven't found any competitors lately. No one wants to do what I do anymore, or they are dead, just like the guys who taught you !

I am in painful agreement with you on the "cubicle engineers", a term Bob Winters ( AKA bob is the oil guy) coined.

I left room in the PM box for you or just head over to www.dysonanalysis.com and email me.

Terry

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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they are all college kids with no practicle background at all book smarts but NO hands on work.

---

Bruce, that is for sure. College grads now days can't function unless they have a "CookBook" of formulas. No critical thinking, and no thinking ourside the box.

I try and educate them to be multi-disciplinary types and to look outside their sphere of comfort.

 

[glxpassat]

So is there any update to when we will be able to do another oil analysis? I vote we look at the Gold GC now to see if it's the same as the green. Terry, why don't we just use the same guy as before and just let him take however much time it takes to do it?

 

[radiometer]

Didn't Bruce381 come up with some information on this? I saw a comment of his on this board somewhere about it.

 

[Terry]

Graciously bruce381 did post some basic spectro results unless I missed other postings. I would like to see the additional testing that he did that confirms the base oils and add chemistries.

I don't know for sure what GC gold is. Castrol is so cost driven on procuring formulations and changing them it is hard to say for sure without this expensive and time consuming testing.

I do not want to use the earlier R&D lab/MS chemists as they left me in the learch and I ate hours of work. Thank goodness for Molakule and his smarts or I would still be grinding along.

I am having great difficulty with getting a Mass Spec testing source I can trust and we can afford. Either they are labs owned by "entrenched" interests or too costly.

Any lab offers out there please email me at www.dysonanalysis.com

I am currently working on procuring a newly developed portable MS desorb machine and use it here at the shop but I am not sure I can cost justify, same reason we have little actual in lab testing here any longer.

If I could essentially break down ANY lube or formula you guys wanted tested what would/could you pay for that kind of work ?

 

[bruce381]

terry I just did a basic IR overlay of the green and gold they look the same then tested a few polymer/esters I thought maybe in there and there was a good match.

Easy to do just takes a lot of baseline testing I'm sure I missed something but it was fun.
now on to new stuff maybe this xentec stuff?

bruce