Oil Recommendation for 65 GTO

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DaleGolds

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I have a 65 GTO and I am concerned about oil selection since they have reduced the ZDDP in normal oil. So I have done a lot of research on the subject and what I have basically found out is the ZDDP level depends on the engine and its use. The general consensus is somewhere between 1200 to 1600 PPM Zinc for high performance street driven cars with hydraulic flat tappet cams. But that does not narrow it down enough for me so I thought I would ask the experts.

My car is used for street use only with weekend cruises and maybe a cross country Hot Rod Power Tour. It is a muscle car so it will have the occasional stop light flogging but will never see the strip.

My car is a 1965 Pontiac GTO with a 4 speed and 3.36 rear gears. The engine is a 1969 Pontiac 428 bored 30 over (433). It has 10-1 compression with Edelbrock aluminum heads that have been heavily ported with an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake that was ported to match the heads. The carburetor is a 1976 Pontiac Quadrajet 800 CFM that has been tuned for the engine. The cam is a Lunati VooDoo Cam 60903 with a center line of 110, advertised duration 268/276, duration @ 50 227/233, and lift with 1.65 roller rockers of 538/554. The estimated HP will be around 490 and the torque will be around 590. Spring pressure will be between 115-120 for seat load and 319-336 open load with a spring rate around 400. I still haven't decided on the springs, this is what is recommended for the cam.

I would like to use something that is complete, designed for engines that are not started everyday, and requires no additional additives. I have done research on the Lucas Muscle Car Oil with 2100 PPM Zinc, Champion Classic & Muscle Synthetic Blend with 1627 PPM Zinc, Amsoil Z Rod Oil with 1440 PPM Zinc, and Comp Cams Muscle Car Oil with 1300 PPM Zinc. Would any of these be a good choice for my car or would you recommend something else?

Thank you for your time and advise,
Dale
 
AMSOIL Z-Rod would be my choice of oil for that beast. the zinc is high enough, and the z-rod test very well in combating rust/corrosion on surfaces that sit un-lubricated for long periods of time.
 
Valvoline VR-1 10w-30 ... just because it's widely available, usually, and fairly reasonable price wise.

If you are wanting a boutique, "dedicated" racing/ hi-performance oil... then I'm sure any you listed will be fine, if not some being overkill.

Best of luck.
 
genynnc said:
Valvoline VR-1 10w-30 ... just because it's widely available, usually, and fairly reasonable price wise.

If you are wanting a boutique, "dedicated" racing/ hi-performance oil... then I'm sure any you listed will be fine, if not some being overkill.

Best of luck.

I think to 10w30 is to light for that Engine with al the modification maybe in the winter months !!! But summer time, 20w50
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
AMSOIL Z-Rod would be my choice of oil for that beast. the zinc is high enough, and the z-rod test very well in combating rust/corrosion on surfaces that sit un-lubricated for long periods of time.


I run the Amsoil Synthetic Oil in my Harley and I am very impressed with it. I also like the fact it is a small US company.
 
Originally Posted By: DaleGolds
I would like to use something that is complete, designed for engines that are not started everyday, and requires no additional additives. I have done research on the Lucas Muscle Car Oil with 2100 PPM Zinc, Champion Classic & Muscle Synthetic Blend with 1627 PPM Zinc, Amsoil Z Rod Oil with 1440 PPM Zinc, and Comp Cams Muscle Car Oil with 1300 PPM Zinc. Would any of these be a good choice for my car or would you recommend something else?


I'd stay away from the Lucas at 2100 ppm. That's too high and is corrosive. Leave that for pure racing. The Champion levels are about as high as I'd go. The Amsoil looks to be the best of the lot, in my view. Valvoline VR-1 can be had off the shelf, as an alternative.
 
Thanks for all of the recommendations. Everyone of them are oils that I have actually considered. I ran the VR-1 in it before I started the restoration but since then I have read articles that say that racing oils are not good for occasional use street cars because they don't have the chemicals to protect them when they are not in use.

If only the government could have left well enough alone because there used to be no problem buying oils for these cars. Now you have to have an engineering degree to understand which oil to use.
Dale
 
I'd stay away from the Lucas at 2100 ppm. That's too high and is corrosive. Leave that for pure racing. The Champion levels are about as high as I'd go. The Amsoil looks to be the best of the lot, in my view. Valvoline VR-1 can be had off the shelf, as an alternative.
[/quote]

Thank you for the very specific breakdown of the different oils. I had also thought the Lucas Oil was overkill. I understand that too much Zink can be as bad as not enough Zink. To be honest I was leaning towards the Amsoil because it is in the middle of what I have read as recommended levels for old muscle cars, but I wanted to hear opinions from others. I have also used their oils for my Harley and have always been impressed with their products.
Dale
 
Originally Posted By: DaleGolds
Thanks for all of the recommendations. Everyone of them are oils that I have actually considered. I ran the VR-1 in it before I started the restoration but since then I have read articles that say that racing oils are not good for occasional use street cars because they don't have the chemicals to protect them when they are not in use.

The VR-1 has also come up short of their claimed ZDDP levels in a few VOAs.
I'd suggest Shell Rotella 15w40 or 10w-30, inxepensive, easily available and solid ZDDP levels, at least by todays CJ-4 standards.

For extra insurance add in a half a bottle of GM E.O.S. each oil change
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=EOS
 
I'd use Brad Penn, but the others you mentioned would probably be just as good.
VR1 street oil is widely believed to be the same as their mainstream oil, but with higher ZDDP content. It lasts as long as their mainstream oil does and by all accounts should have the same additives. That said, I have noticed the VR1 conventional specs show higher viscosity than the same grade white-bottle, so there might be a bit more difference between them than just the ZDDP.
The version of VR1 that says "NOT STREET LEGAL" on the bottle is the serious racing-only oil which you'd want to stay away from.

I wouldn't use QS Defy - the ZDDP level in that is kind of a compromise. I believe it's mainly designed for high mileage ~1990s era cars with catalysts. 10w40 has the highest concentration (1200ppm Zn, 1000ppm P) but it's not at a level I'd be comfortable with on a 60s muscle car.
 
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
AMSOIL Z-Rod would be my choice of oil for that beast. the zinc is high enough, and the z-rod test very well in combating rust/corrosion on surfaces that sit un-lubricated for long periods of time.


Absolutely correct.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone


I'd suggest Shell Rotella 15w40 or 10w-30, inxepensive, easily available and solid ZDDP levels, at least by todays CJ-4 standards.



thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: DaleGolds
Thanks for all of the recommendations. Everyone of them are oils that I have actually considered. I ran the VR-1 in it before I started the restoration but since then I have read articles that say that racing oils are not good for occasional use street cars because they don't have the chemicals to protect them when they are not in use.

The VR-1 has also come up short of their claimed ZDDP levels in a few VOAs.
I'd suggest Shell Rotella 15w40 or 10w-30, inxepensive, easily available and solid ZDDP levels, at least by todays CJ-4 standards.

For extra insurance add in a half a bottle of GM E.O.S. each oil change
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=EOS


When I did research on the VR-1 I found that the maximum ZDDP was 1200 PPM. I have no idea if that is true because the company never wrote me back, I got that off of another forum. There are a lot of people using the diesel oils, but unfortunately they have come under the EPA lately and have had their ZDDP levels cut as well. That is why I have been thinking of the custom oils made specifically for muscle cars like Comp Cams, Champion, and Amsoil.

Speaking of the Comp Cams oil, has anyone tried it yet?

Dale
 
Originally Posted By: armos
I wouldn't use QS Defy - the ZDDP level in that is kind of a compromise. I believe it's mainly designed for high mileage ~1990s era cars with catalysts. 10w40 has the highest concentration (1200ppm Zn, 1000ppm P) but it's not at a level I'd be comfortable with on a 60s muscle car.


I wrote Quaker State about their ZDDP levels in their new Defy Oil and they were very vague. All they would tell me is its somewhere around 1000 to 1200 even though I was very specific on which oils I was interested in. I do use it in my 2002 Dodge R/T with 175,000 miles. This oil replaced their old High-Mileage Oil that had Slick-50 in it. So far it seems to be doing well in that engine.
Dale
 
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/lubricants/

HIGH PERFORMANCE ZINC ENHANCED FORMULA (SAE 10w40)
Edelbrock High Performance 10w40 motor oil is a blend of hydro-processed petroleum base stocks, special polymers and additives focused on superior performance and engine protection for street rods and muscle cars with flat tappet camshafts. The increased zinc provides unparalleled anti-friction, anti-wear and minimizes frictional losses for increased power. This combination also offers excellent thermal stability under extreme RPM and high operating temperatures. It also protects against scuffing, galling and metal transfer for longer engine life. Edelbrock High Performance with Enhanced Zinc exceeds all API standards for a vehicle without a catalytic converter.

Specially blended for superior performance and engine protection for street rods and muscle cars with flat tappet camshafts
Zinc enhanced formula seeks out high-friction heat and adds extra layer of protection
Excellent thermal stability for high RPM and engine temperatures
Protects against scuffing and galling for longer engine life
Sold individually in quarts (32 oz.) or cases (12 qts.)
 
Originally Posted By: DaleGolds
I ran the VR-1 in it before I started the restoration but since then I have read articles that say that racing oils are not good for occasional use street cars because they don't have the chemicals to protect them when they are not in use.


That's quite true, but VR-1 doesn't fall into that category. It's not their "pure" racing oil. As for the diesel oils, there is plenty of ZDDP left in them.
 
So far I seem to be impressed most with the Amsoil because oil is what they do, it is not something they do on the side where their main market is performance parts. I was also on the Charger Forum and found this site. http://www.bndautomotive.com/page/page/929427.htm They custom blend their oil to your specific motor and driving conditions, sounds expensive. They get good reviews from what I could find. I sent them an email to see what they would recommend and how much their custom blended oil is. I would imagine it will be way out of my price range.
Dale
 
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